Just like to do a survey here. Since we know for a turbocharged vehicle it is hard to find a compromise in between response and peak power, given that you're doing a turbocharger upgrade, which one do you opt for?
Response Or Peak Power?
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Though there are some whom are into drags and that's why they added in their turbo. For me, the reason why I chose is peak response is because around where I live or hang out, there's too many cars and there's no point for me wanting for peak performance as I'll never get there ...
unless of course I live in the middle of nowhere and there's millions of miles ahead of me with no cars or anything! :P
unless of course I live in the middle of nowhere and there's millions of miles ahead of me with no cars or anything! :P
this question is like an onion. there are so many layers and you can peel away as many as you want but you're still looking at the same thing ultimately.
this is quite a tricky question because the question can be interpreted in a number of ways. also we should try to be realistic and practical, or at least have a common agreement to what we mean by response as in how much response do we consider responsive and what we mean by peak power as in how much more or less peak power in relation to which ballpark figure are we considering?
i think the easy answer would be a nice mix of both. surely too much response with too little peak power or too much peak power with no response whatsoever that you probably never hit the peak power rpm would both be bad.
if we take the stock car configuration as a benchmark, then it'd be good if we can have more response and also more peak power than stock. to me, its nice to have a car that is eager under part throttle conditions, ie every little step more on the throttle gives more torque, whatever the rpm. it would also be nice if the increments of torque is quite linear to throttle input, rather than say a setup where there is virtually no difference between 0-80%throttle, then suddenly in the last 20% of throttle the car shoots off like a rocket.
as for power, it would be nice to have a car that has more and more power as the revs build all the way to redline. ie there's a climax at the end, rather than a flat power delivery like that of the rx8, it just revs and revs but never reaches a peak(i borrow this from nick aka gti88 ;) ).
also by response do we mean the rpm that the turbo begins to make useful boost, or the true response of the turbo once there is sufficient revs to boil it. i have mentioned this in the past.
say we have 2 turbos. both on a 4g63. one is the original td05 16g, and the other one is a hks gt2835. on the same engine, we set the boost limit at 1bar for both. on the td05 16g, it hits 1bar by 3000rpm and the car really pulls. with the gt2835, it only hits 1bar at 4000rpm. in both cases we start the test in 5th gear at 2000rpm and floor the throttle.
so on this account the td05 16g has better response. now we go and do another test. we accelerate in 5th gear to 5500rpm, then back off throttle completely. when the revs drop to 4500rpm, we suddenly whack full throttle and using an ecu with a datalogger, go back to see at 4500rpm when you suddenly stab the throttle, what was the time taken for the td05 16g and gt2835 to hit 1bar.
we then repeat this test from say 10% throttle at 4500rpm and immediately throttle to 80% and log the time it takes each turbo to hit 1bar.
now, i might be completely wrong here. the 16g is a smaller and lighter wheel. but i suspect, i stress here, suspect, the gt2835 will have better times shown on the data logger. of course if we did the test a bit differently at different rpms and/or different throttle settings and/or boost the results will be different. but to me, this is what i mean by response. once you get going, how fast the turbo reacts to your inputs. response to me is not so simple as turbo lag rpm. after all, if you're a car nut, you should drive with more enthusiasm and downshift if you really need to get going so rpm turbo lag shouldn't really be such a problem.
oh but to answer the question, of course response! this is a street car man!! :D
this is quite a tricky question because the question can be interpreted in a number of ways. also we should try to be realistic and practical, or at least have a common agreement to what we mean by response as in how much response do we consider responsive and what we mean by peak power as in how much more or less peak power in relation to which ballpark figure are we considering?
i think the easy answer would be a nice mix of both. surely too much response with too little peak power or too much peak power with no response whatsoever that you probably never hit the peak power rpm would both be bad.
if we take the stock car configuration as a benchmark, then it'd be good if we can have more response and also more peak power than stock. to me, its nice to have a car that is eager under part throttle conditions, ie every little step more on the throttle gives more torque, whatever the rpm. it would also be nice if the increments of torque is quite linear to throttle input, rather than say a setup where there is virtually no difference between 0-80%throttle, then suddenly in the last 20% of throttle the car shoots off like a rocket.
as for power, it would be nice to have a car that has more and more power as the revs build all the way to redline. ie there's a climax at the end, rather than a flat power delivery like that of the rx8, it just revs and revs but never reaches a peak(i borrow this from nick aka gti88 ;) ).
also by response do we mean the rpm that the turbo begins to make useful boost, or the true response of the turbo once there is sufficient revs to boil it. i have mentioned this in the past.
say we have 2 turbos. both on a 4g63. one is the original td05 16g, and the other one is a hks gt2835. on the same engine, we set the boost limit at 1bar for both. on the td05 16g, it hits 1bar by 3000rpm and the car really pulls. with the gt2835, it only hits 1bar at 4000rpm. in both cases we start the test in 5th gear at 2000rpm and floor the throttle.
so on this account the td05 16g has better response. now we go and do another test. we accelerate in 5th gear to 5500rpm, then back off throttle completely. when the revs drop to 4500rpm, we suddenly whack full throttle and using an ecu with a datalogger, go back to see at 4500rpm when you suddenly stab the throttle, what was the time taken for the td05 16g and gt2835 to hit 1bar.
we then repeat this test from say 10% throttle at 4500rpm and immediately throttle to 80% and log the time it takes each turbo to hit 1bar.
now, i might be completely wrong here. the 16g is a smaller and lighter wheel. but i suspect, i stress here, suspect, the gt2835 will have better times shown on the data logger. of course if we did the test a bit differently at different rpms and/or different throttle settings and/or boost the results will be different. but to me, this is what i mean by response. once you get going, how fast the turbo reacts to your inputs. response to me is not so simple as turbo lag rpm. after all, if you're a car nut, you should drive with more enthusiasm and downshift if you really need to get going so rpm turbo lag shouldn't really be such a problem.
oh but to answer the question, of course response! this is a street car man!! :D
f8,
here we go round the mulberry bush .. mulberry bush .. mulberry bush ... :lol: :lol: :lol: jokes aside the best obviously would be a mix and match of both peak power and good response .. just like everything else in the world it's a balance/compromise that one has to make :D thanks for the insight on peak power vs response
here we go round the mulberry bush .. mulberry bush .. mulberry bush ... :lol: :lol: :lol: jokes aside the best obviously would be a mix and match of both peak power and good response .. just like everything else in the world it's a balance/compromise that one has to make :D thanks for the insight on peak power vs response
hahaha ops sorry!! just trying to be a bit careful and discerning.
don't you think its quite pointless if we all agree to things that appear to be the same but we each individually interpret it a bit differently?
i think not knowing exactly what you are agreeing to is worse than knowing exactly what you are disagreeing on. ie agreeing to disagree.
i don't know why sometimes i get this sensation its all a bunch of blind people trying to lead other blind people across the road in this forum. its a miracle we're not run over yet!
in the end the ones that seem least blind are those who shout the loudest. and then there are those who are actually quite blind but think they have 2020 vision! it makes for interesting watching though.
but whats even more traggic is that some of the blind are not really blind beyond help, but they just refuse to open their eyes. too much hassle it seems.
i can always tell if people really understood what i said and thought about it, or even so much as just ponder from reading their replies and subsequent questions. the easy ones are those who ask questions in which answers could be found in previous posts, but there are worse.
but not all is bad also lah. its always a mixed basket LOL.
but i gave a short answer at the end and i cast my vote like every good civilian should also mah... :D
do you see what you're looking at? *wink wink*
don't you think its quite pointless if we all agree to things that appear to be the same but we each individually interpret it a bit differently?
i think not knowing exactly what you are agreeing to is worse than knowing exactly what you are disagreeing on. ie agreeing to disagree.
i don't know why sometimes i get this sensation its all a bunch of blind people trying to lead other blind people across the road in this forum. its a miracle we're not run over yet!
in the end the ones that seem least blind are those who shout the loudest. and then there are those who are actually quite blind but think they have 2020 vision! it makes for interesting watching though.
but whats even more traggic is that some of the blind are not really blind beyond help, but they just refuse to open their eyes. too much hassle it seems.
i can always tell if people really understood what i said and thought about it, or even so much as just ponder from reading their replies and subsequent questions. the easy ones are those who ask questions in which answers could be found in previous posts, but there are worse.
but not all is bad also lah. its always a mixed basket LOL.
but i gave a short answer at the end and i cast my vote like every good civilian should also mah... :D
do you see what you're looking at? *wink wink*
f8,
alamakkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk ..gone blind liao .. now i dunno which one i belong to .. the blind leading the blind or the blind that is finds it a hassle to open up my eyes... hahahahah ... btw have you seen the best motoring mines r34 video clip which claims to have the ultimate response ?
alamakkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk ..gone blind liao .. now i dunno which one i belong to .. the blind leading the blind or the blind that is finds it a hassle to open up my eyes... hahahahah ... btw have you seen the best motoring mines r34 video clip which claims to have the ultimate response ?
shixxx ahhahah mines r34 ultimate respons rocks , damn just by looking at the video i can feel how the car really pulls . the revs on 4th gear still pulling strong . :lol:
Aiyoooooo Dr. f4x2 there you go again your bukkake reply. Now that I'm totally blinded by that LOL.
I think by response we mean turbo response, that is the delay of boost production where the engine is already in the rpm where boost can be produced. Smaller turbocharger are usually less laggy in low & early mid rpms and has a lower boost threshold compared to larger ones.
So.... I think..... the above poll should mean.....
Do you want a turbocharger that:
1) Can produce useful boost at low and early mid rpm with a noticeable amount of torque increase, responsive at low and early mid rpm, but couldn't produce as much power as 2), or
2) Can't really produce useful boost at low and early mid rpm, and torque increase are only noticeable at late mid and high rpm, laggy at low and early mid rpm, and produce hell lot more power than 1),
Let me take an extreme example from a RB26. Do you prefer a twin GT2510 or twin GT3540?
What c*ck am I talking anyway? LOLOLOL
I think by response we mean turbo response, that is the delay of boost production where the engine is already in the rpm where boost can be produced. Smaller turbocharger are usually less laggy in low & early mid rpms and has a lower boost threshold compared to larger ones.
So.... I think..... the above poll should mean.....
Do you want a turbocharger that:
1) Can produce useful boost at low and early mid rpm with a noticeable amount of torque increase, responsive at low and early mid rpm, but couldn't produce as much power as 2), or
2) Can't really produce useful boost at low and early mid rpm, and torque increase are only noticeable at late mid and high rpm, laggy at low and early mid rpm, and produce hell lot more power than 1),
Let me take an extreme example from a RB26. Do you prefer a twin GT2510 or twin GT3540?
What c*ck am I talking anyway? LOLOLOL
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my ex car 4g63t...im satisfied eventho little laggy. still can get powerful g force and manage to go 260kmj. boost kick in at a little above 3000rpm plus the pulling power effect of race cams until 8000rpm...very addictive.
driving in city is hell ... never get to fully release the car potential anyway as I alway run around 3k rpm which is 100 - 120 km/h
so I choose for responsive , just dont seem to be able to reach peak of what turbo can do
so I choose for responsive , just dont seem to be able to reach peak of what turbo can do
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Fast Response of coz!
thats y we need turbos..
G-Force
thats y we need turbos..
G-Force
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beside fast response...turbochargers&superchargers also help max speed.
best combination are big cc engine(more torque) plus twin medium size turbos/single turbo or supercharger....
example....bentley arnage,bentley continental gt,bentley flying spur,skylines,supras,merc benz S600 bi turbo,audi RS series...also porsche gt and 996 gt2.many more examples.....
best combination are big cc engine(more torque) plus twin medium size turbos/single turbo or supercharger....
example....bentley arnage,bentley continental gt,bentley flying spur,skylines,supras,merc benz S600 bi turbo,audi RS series...also porsche gt and 996 gt2.many more examples.....
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