Water to Air Intercooler

[lozo]

it think dry ice ic uses less components..


but i dont think it is suitable for daily use
stock is the best
heh heh

 

[Speed Demon]

I have used water-to-air intercooler before from an original works Toyota Celica GT-4 .... It was a great concept during the early 90's of WRC and some Le-Man's cars. It definately has a weight penalty for the amount of plumbing, water, pump, core to soak the charge air, and another core to cool the water within the system. No doubt the charge air plumbing is shorter, however, with modern intercooler, there's hardly any known pressure drops.

Don't apologise for posting your own opinion. If everyone is afraid of posting their opinion we will all not be able to develop & enhance their knowledge.

You are most probably right but I think the power gains from using cool or cold water offsets the weight disadvantage.

actually what my mech did on his drag car was using a normal plastic container, drill hole on it. thn using those fish tank water pump to pump the water around.

however, there is some cautions (this is what my mech faced). 1st thing is irregular intake temp. as he is using ice cubes to cool the water, hence the intake temp can be abit flactuate. so whn tuning and actual drag running may have abit problem.

This is where using an igloo or thermos-type tank is better as it regulates the temp a bit more. But I guess for drag-race usage it is fine. Seriously, the temperature makes a BIG difference. I once watched a car using a water-to-air system being tuned on a dyno. Using normal tap water, a certain HP rating was reached. Just by simply adding ice cubes to the water, the HP rating increased by another 60HP!!!

 

[jo1]

I have Spearco 2-231 liquid to air cooler if anyone is interested.http://www.turboneticsinc.com/ic_liquidtoair.htm

are you the dealer or individual seller..... i'm interested but not that size....:secret: do you have the water pump as well...

 

[eyong]

Thanks Speed Demon.

On another point, if you want an everyday efficient cooling over your existing intercooler, it's probably not a bad idea to hook up a simple water-spray system based on boost pressure, and intake temperature. This definately works (Ihave used it before again) and makes alot of difference. Dry ice unit works very well with drag races, but for everyday use is alittle expensive and less practical. The spray head you have to use must do a fine mist instead of your garden hose type. Other simple thing to aid cooling is to implement outlet ducts on the bonnets, force-air device thru the intercooler and radiator etc. It's probably end up cheaper and less hassle, and probably rather effective too.

 

[RSI]

are you the dealer or individual seller..... i'm interested but not that size....:secret: do you have the water pump as well...

Normally people would use USA flojet waterpump for marine use. You can get them for around RM400+ from Explorer Marine in Balakong. PM me for more info on that cooler. The front radiator u can use any oil cooler.

Water intercoolers are very useful when there is no space in front for a large front mount cooler. Also when it is not possible to route fat pipes to the front. Also because the air path is short in a water cooler system, engine will have better transient response.


Many continental cars such as Jaguar XJR, Mercedes AMG C32 are some few high performance cars that use such setup.

The Kleemans Kompressor kit for Mercedes also uses water to air cooler.

For ppl with luxury cars are not going to cut their bumper up like those cheap cars.

 

[RSI]

Also during start stop start stop situation the water to air cooler works much better as there is not enough time for air to flow round an air to air cooler. This effect is even more noticeable especially on top mount setups such as 4AGZE, Mira Turbos, Subaru Imprezzas and GT4 celicas. If you blast the car between a series of traffic lights you will feel the car loses quite a bit of power as the charge air becomes hot. Interheater it becomes!

 

[RSI]

Not saying that air to water is better than air to air. Just saying that both got pros and cons. Putting ice or dry ice in a box of intercooler is a one shot drag cooler and is definitely not a setup for any street driven car.

 

[RSI]

This is the sort of diaphragm pump that you will need for a high power water to air cooler. This together with a SPEARCO 2-231 you can flow up to 600bhp while still remaining very compact and no one will know you have that kind of power under your hood. Imagine a Volvo 240GL turbo running super high boost with no intercooler you can see in front!

The pump. You can get them from Explorer Marine in Seri Kembangan. Marine parts are good to modify for car use because:

- There is totally no import duty on marine parts
- They are very reliable since it is made for harsh environment

http://www.flojet.com/prodInfoApp/itt_jsp/DisplayItemDetail.jsp?itemId=02100-12&companyId=FLOJET&catalogId=Marine&categoryId=FMMPU&typeId=FM210

 

[eyong]

Also during start stop start stop situation the water to air cooler works much better as there is not enough time for air to flow round an air to air cooler. This effect is even more noticeable especially on top mount setups such as 4AGZE, Mira Turbos, Subaru Imprezzas and GT4 celicas. If you blast the car between a series of traffic lights you will feel the car loses quite a bit of power as the charge air becomes hot. Interheater it becomes!

That's definately some good points .... SALUTE :shades_smile:

 

[normality78]

Also during start stop start stop situation the water to air cooler works much better as there is not enough time for air to flow round an air to air cooler. This effect is even more noticeable especially on top mount setups such as 4AGZE, Mira Turbos, Subaru Imprezzas and GT4 celicas. If you blast the car between a series of traffic lights you will feel the car loses quite a bit of power as the charge air becomes hot. Interheater it becomes!

er.. abit confuse here. pls correct me if im wrong.

so on normal day to day use, should on stop-go, stop go situation, water cooled can be benefit thn air-air cooled rite? just that after some journey, the air becomes too hot for water to handle as the water itself can be cool fast enaugh rite?

if so, does it help if add water-cooler? stupid idea. use the oil cooler, instead of cooling the oil make it cool the water. whahahahaha

 

[normality78]

hm... abit on ICE topic here.

i found out on my mech drag machine, if we use the big ice block, the ice block do last longer thn small ice cube but it doesnt cool the water fast enaugh.

but on small ice cube, it does cool the water very fast but also will melted very fasy. does dry ice benefit in both way? meaning last longer and cool faster?

 

[eyong]

hm... abit on ICE topic here.

i found out on my mech drag machine, if we use the big ice block, the ice block do last longer thn small ice cube but it doesnt cool the water fast enaugh.

but on small ice cube, it does cool the water very fast but also will melted very fasy. does dry ice benefit in both way? meaning last longer and cool faster?

It all about surface area, my friend ... :shades_smile:

 

[Speed Demon]

I'm no physicist but it might also have something to do with the molecular structure difference between dry ice and ice cubes. Smaller ice cubes melt faster because of their smaller structure, thus allowing for quicker change in its state, while block ice is larger, so it takes longer to change from one state (solid) to another (liquid).

Since dry ice converts to a gaseous state I think it is about the same as wet ice. I guess what is needed is a comparison of the time difference between dry ice and "wet" ice. How long will dry ice take to convert compared to wet ice.

Another factor which might prove interesting is that wet ice (essentially water) is composed of one molecule of hidrogen and 2 molecules of oxygen whereas dry ice is one molecule of carbon dioxide and 2 molecules of oxygen. So we can also see what difference in the combustion cycle of the engine does carbon dioxide and hidrogen make.

Just some wild theories of mine....:_:

 

[RSI]

Dry ice has a surface temp of -78 degrees C
Ice has a surfac temp of 0 degrees C

any drop in intake temp will see the same temp drop in exhaust temp. Can run leaner AFR and more timing to make more power.

Basically the colder the air gets the more compressed the molecules hence higher density. Remember Air fuel ratio is the ratio of air to fuel by WEIGHT not by volume. 14.7:1 AFR means 14.7grams of air to 1 gram of fuel.

 

[RSI]

Water Ice melts from solid to liquid.

Dry Ice is actually solid carbon dioxide

It subliminates: meaning it goes from solid straight to gas ithout becoming liquid.

This is 2 stages which absorbs a lot of heat.

 

[normality78]

Keng... all are super sifu here. my salute to all of u.

(this is what forum all about)

 

[MK84]

acbc, next time u at GT go take a look at my car there. Hehehe.

 

[Speed Demon]

Dry ice has a surface temp of -78 degrees C
Ice has a surfac temp of 0 degrees C

If that is the case, then there is no need to do any comparison. The lower temp of dry ice makes it an instant winner.

Water Ice melts from solid to liquid.

Dry Ice is actually solid carbon dioxide

It subliminates: meaning it goes from solid straight to gas ithout becoming liquid.

Hmmm.....so if dry ice converts to gas, doesn't that mean the gas will be used in the cooling process then be converted to nothing but hot air? Whereas if water is used, at least it is in liquid form and while the cooling effect is definitely lesser, at least it remains? So we can surmise that dry ice is only adequate for short term usage such as drag racing.

 

[flamefox850]

very good info bro RSI

speed demon : yeah, dry ice only for short term usage. errr it's not converted to hot air but the heat (the energy) from hot intake charge being absorb by the dry ice (solid state) to change it's form to gas state (CO2 gas)...and definately the enegy is still not enough to heat the CO2 gas...there's still many solid CO2 around to change form right ? unless u run out of dry ice kekeke

 

[bnr_32]

RSI = RS Impressive Puchong?