How to counter effect of AWD understeer and RWD oversteer

[maxgil05]

RWD can cause the car to have more oversteer and AWD make the car to have more understeer when coming to corners

Even Nissan GTR R33 & R34 in Japan GT is modified to RWD with wider tire in the front at is 330mm while car like Enzo FXX front tire is only 255mm or 245mm

But RWD are more likely to spin in corner if throttle is applied, will be harder to turn a AWD as will cause understeer

The reason AWD doesn't spin out that easily is because some percentage of power is transferred to front wheel while RWD have 100% power only on the rear wheel

Such car like AWD = Skyline GTR, how to make this type of cars turn well (more oversteer), how should the suspension be setup on front and rear

Pls advise on suspension setting of such AWD or is it better to have RWD

 

[neohadri]

tooo general lah your question

 

[D7zul]

depends on what u want in the car..

if for drifting, RWD all the way..

if rallying, AWD is the way to go..

suspension setup is more of an 'individual preferences'..

some like it hard, some like is soft

 

[peterj]

i dunno what u require, but , i do share my experience here....i am driving a civic eg 4 door..... 1st i installed full ultra racing bar except the front and rear ARB,hwl hi/lo adjustable (not too soft not too hard, 6k front 4k rear) i only feel car is solid then stock and yet still understeer if applied more torque during corner, next, changed to lsd gearbox, more grip on the floor, can apply more torque but still massive under steer when much more massive torque kick in when turbo spool... next, ultra racing rear 18mm ARB upgrade (oem 11mm), front not upgrade together, here come the interesting parts, FF car with more solid rear, going in round about around 90km/h and try to apply more torque, i turn the steering more like normal (cause normally always under steer) , miracle happen, i oversteer...

yes, seriously, oversteer, the tail is going out 1st, when i try to turn more in order counter the under steer that i normally got.......next day , mech finally got time for the front 27mm ARB installation, after install , it neutralize most the over steer, make it balance, but if u steer more some over steer noticeable, for higher speed, these bars tend to balanced the car between under and over steer....

for previous wira evo 4wd case (evo 4 engine, gearbox with evo 3 rear axle)

tein ha ultra hard absorber set up , 8.5k front and 6.5k rear , full ultra racing bar except front and rear ARB, handling somehow stable,but, when full boost accelerating at 30 degree corner and speed around 130km/h, scary massive understeer till i almost hit road divider(less then 0.5m distance), the understeer slide my car out wards even i try apply more steering angle, at these point, i understand what balance car weight distribution affect the handling , the under steer mainly caused by my 70% weight is in front and my total weight is heavier.....

so based on my experience, those over steer and under steer can be reduced or over come by correct weight distribution, suspension set up or adding UR bar like in my civic case(sorry bit off topic) .. however, in your case, if race spec or older generation AWD that the transmission are all mechanical type, example evo 3, my fren having full lock lsd on rear from RS version, it made the car sharp at high speed corner without experience scary understeer like in my case, some how still can over steer.....if modern AWD with electronics transmission control like the new subaru impreza .... somehow the system allowed the driver to tune the power transmit to all 4 wheels, example 60% rear 40 % front.....i do heard some mechanical lsd allow us to do that also, do correct me if wrong...

for RWD, sorry, never experience and get info of it, but i do heard with a set of good lsd that make RWD more traction on rear will made the car oversteer easily for example those drift car do this....

do correct me if i am wrong , i am still learning kid also..tq

 

[maxgil05]

Thanks peterj, I understand now what I can do to make AWD oversteer, need stronger ARB at the back and lighter on the front and use carbon fiber hood & fender at front and add more weight at the back.

 

[peterj]

Thanks peterj, I understand now what I can do to make AWD oversteer, need stronger ARB at the back and lighter on the front and use carbon fiber hood & fender at front and add more weight at the back.

increase rear power bias and traction also

 

[gIGoN]

rule of thumb is that...if u have oversteer, stiffen your front, and if your car understeer, stiffen the rear. you can achieve those by putting bars or tune the suspension to do either those, once it's balance you'll turn like a roller coaster.

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

haha japan GT doesnt allow 4wd la wehhhh

even impreza in japan gt also RWD




how to counter those bad habbits of a car?? DRIVING SKILLS & SUSPENSION TUNING matters....the rest? just go with the flow~ yo yo

 

[mh wong]

Thanks peterj, I understand now what I can do to make AWD oversteer, need stronger ARB at the back and lighter on the front and use carbon fiber hood & fender at front and add more weight at the back.

add more weight to te rear,...which part of rear....Top or Bottom.....if Bottom,....will make te tyre more grip.....if Top......bcoz of te G Force.....i thk will make te rear out faster compare to front > oversteer...

ofcoz, stronger ARB n high rate spring, cheap tyre...will make te car easy to oversteer....

chasis balance, look at outside.....i thk we do saw...some of te car.....rear clearance higher than front.....so,,..ur know la...

 

[mh wong]

any sifu know....4wd without LSD front n rear....how difference compare to those car like evo got LSD when in cornering....mind to share??

 

[gIGoN]

just to share my experience, i was using 2wd semi lsd before and just installed full lock lsd front and back. I would say the handling difference is like chocolate and shit. Running LSD front and back gives you total control of your car during corners and honestly speaking having 4wd full lock front n back, you can just run full throttle during the corners and just control your car by steering.

I'm in the midst of changing all my 4 tyres to new ones as i was using 10-20% thread tyres when i was testing them. This is from my personal experience though. And I'm using Tein front n back, hi-lo softhard, with uprated spring rates.

 

[Dayline668]

LSD give u more traction on the ground, how the car handling depend on car setting, a good chasis tuning, weight distribution play the main role in how the car act when cornering n high speed maneuver, a proper setup 4WD can turn like a FR, 4WD grip, accelerate out corner like a FF. All the understeer n oversteer can be overcome by chasis setting.

These is a lot of knowledge in LSD alone, 1way, 1.5way, 2way(full lock), all act diff when accel n decelerate.

 

[mh wong]

my mech said, my car need to use low gear n tekan abit / control pedal all te way when cornering, cant let go minyak, if not, it will slides....bcoz he said, if u let go minyak, theres no grip-tion? any more....coz no LSD....

some said if full lock LSD,...more easy to slides.....ist true.?

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

haha japan GT doesnt allow 4wd la wehhhh

even impreza in japan gt also RWD




how to counter those bad habbits of a car?? DRIVING SKILLS & SUSPENSION TUNING matters....the rest? just go with the flow~ yo yo

err....
Super GT = Japan GT ??

because Cusco Impreza in Super GT was the first AWD to in GT300...
maybe can learn from them..lol...

 

[Dayline668]

my mech said, my car need to use low gear n tekan abit / control pedal all te way when cornering, cant let go minyak, if not, it will slides....bcoz he said, if u let go minyak, theres no grip-tion? any more....coz no LSD....

some said if full lock LSD,...more easy to slides.....ist true.?

What is your ride..? LSD give same power to the both wheel at the same time.

Full lock LSD(2way LSD) will spin 2 wheel at the same power(acceleration or deceleration), without LSD power will only go to the side with less grip n spin the wheel. This is how drift car is setup. Without LSD u only will do a single wheel burnout, get it..?

 

[mh wong]

Dayline668,
my xperience....loose control....masuk longkang.....than 3 wheel (left front n rear, right front) is on te divider(wide type wif bunga2), only right rear wheel is in te longkang without grip.....wen i accelerate.....if not mistaken.....right rear wheel won't spin.....

can we actually use other car LSD n modified into my gearbox...any sifu out there done this bfo....

 

[Dayline668]

That is tuning right..? u carrying too much speed into corner la...

LSD must fit into the GB, all GB size is diff, if the LSD size can fit your driveshaft also cannot fit.

 

[mh wong]

That is tuning right..? u carrying too much speed into corner la...

LSD must fit into the GB, all GB size is diff, if the LSD size can fit your driveshaft also cannot fit.

dear dayline668,
about LSD,....can ask those gearbox mechanic not,...maybe they know better, do u know any's?
do u know wether evo7.5 auto LSD same as evo 7 LSD...??

 

[Dayline668]

For that u need to ask MLOC member, i think they would have better answer for u.

 

[maxgil05]

a proper setup 4WD can turn like a FR, 4WD grip, accelerate out corner like a FF.

Thats is the reason I like 4WD