Pros and cons of engine braking?

[vr2turbo]

Tried heel toe today. Wasn't used to it yet. I end up braking a bit more than usual because it is difficult for me heel to reach the throttle pedal as the brake pedal and throttle pedal are not aligned in my car. Brake pedal is higher than the throttle pedal. Need more practice on braking. Reminds me of the days when I started learning to drive where I am not sure how much pressure should I apply on the brakes.

On the other hand, I seemed to be more familiar with rev matching now compared to last week. I found a way to jab the throttle just nicely.

Wah! every time practice, very soon become ipoh terror......lol

 

[lsm1991]

Old luxury car?

old junk car~

 

[6UE5t]

Tried heel toe today. Wasn't used to it yet. I end up braking a bit more than usual because it is difficult for me heel to reach the throttle pedal as the brake pedal and throttle pedal are not aligned in my car. Brake pedal is higher than the throttle pedal. Need more practice on braking. Reminds me of the days when I started learning to drive where I am not sure how much pressure should I apply on the brakes.

On the other hand, I seemed to be more familiar with rev matching now compared to last week. I found a way to jab the throttle just nicely.

Ya, I know already after I saw your pedal photo. The brake is quite far and higher than the gas pedal hence when you brake, it's difficult to reach the gas with your side foot hence you may need to do much more movement of your foot which causes the brake application not constant/linear anymore. That's why I suggested to get those pedal kits, that should help minimize the foot movement hence enable better control of your braking and throttle blipping with the side foot/heel.

 

[Tom]

Tried heel toe today. Wasn't used to it yet. I end up braking a bit more than usual because it is difficult for me heel to reach the throttle pedal as the brake pedal and throttle pedal are not aligned in my car. Brake pedal is higher than the throttle pedal. Need more practice on braking. Reminds me of the days when I started learning to drive where I am not sure how much pressure should I apply on the brakes.

On the other hand, I seemed to be more familiar with rev matching now compared to last week. I found a way to jab the throttle just nicely.

Okay, it's easier to learn at higher speeds. Anything 4th gear and above is best.
Higher speeds allow you to brake harder without slowing the car down too fast.

try a quiet highway at 5th gear then try braking harder than usual while heel and toeing,
whatever brake pressure that makes it easier for your heel to blip the throttle will do the trick.

If anything, you should ride on the brake for a bit before initiating heel and toe. That will help your toes settle in and fix at a certain brake pressure so you can then attempt to heel the throttle with better success.

good luck.

Do post some videos if you can, will help us determine any problems you may have

 

[Tom]

This is shorter version of the footwork video I made, I hope it helps

 

[vr2turbo]

Yah woh! higher gear the ratio won't slow the car too much......bro. Renesis need find bigger space.....

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

and usually heel n toe needed on long braking time (time used to press the brake paddle need to be long enough) if not there is no point doing that... ;)

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Wah! every time practice, very soon become ipoh terror......lol

Not so easy.

Ya, I know already after I saw your pedal photo. The brake is quite far and higher than the gas pedal hence when you brake, it's difficult to reach the gas with your side foot hence you may need to do much more movement of your foot which causes the brake application not constant/linear anymore. That's why I suggested to get those pedal kits, that should help minimize the foot movement hence enable better control of your braking and throttle blipping with the side foot/heel.

I shall give a few more tries first before considering to change the pedals or not. Hope I can familiarize myself with it.

Okay, it's easier to learn at higher speeds. Anything 4th gear and above is best.
Higher speeds allow you to brake harder without slowing the car down too fast.

try a quiet highway at 5th gear then try braking harder than usual while heel and toeing,
whatever brake pressure that makes it easier for your heel to blip the throttle will do the trick.

If anything, you should ride on the brake for a bit before initiating heel and toe. That will help your toes settle in and fix at a certain brake pressure so you can then attempt to heel the throttle with better success.

good luck.

Do post some videos if you can, will help us determine any problems you may have

You are right, it is easier at higher speed. But I don't usually brake a lot when I am driving as I am not going very fast. The roads that I tried out are on trunk roads going to Ipoh. By average, I drive around 90 to 100kmh. Corners are not very sharp and usually I manage to go over them with around 80kmh after slowing down by engine braking. Unless I am going at much higher speed (which I think is dangerous), there isn't much opportunity for me to brake at a longer time period. Yet, I don't dare to brake too late before entering a corner to try out the heel toe technique as it can be risky due to my inexperience. Or I can try entering the corner at a lower speed like around 60kmh after braking during heel toe.

Unfortunately, I do not have a suitable recording device that I can fit to my car for now.

Yah woh! higher gear the ratio won't slow the car too much......bro. Renesis need find bigger space.....

I normally test it out on trunk roads back to Ipoh.

and usually heel n toe needed on long braking time (time used to press the brake paddle need to be long enough) if not there is no point doing that... ;)

Yeah, unless I am driving at very high speed, I don't really need to brake for so long to shave off speed. Since I am driving on public roads, going too fast is not a good idea.

 

[Tom]

You are right, it is easier at higher speed. But I don't usually brake a lot when I am driving as I am not going very fast. The roads that I tried out are on trunk roads going to Ipoh. By average, I drive around 90 to 100kmh. Corners are not very sharp and usually I manage to go over them with around 80kmh after slowing down by engine braking. Unless I am going at much higher speed (which I think is dangerous), there isn't much opportunity for me to brake at a longer time period. Yet, I don't dare to brake too late before entering a corner to try out the heel toe technique as it can be risky due to my inexperience. Or I can try entering the corner at a lower speed like around 60kmh after braking during heel toe.

Unfortunately, I do not have a suitable recording device that I can fit to my car for now.

I normally test it out on trunk roads back to Ipoh.

Yeah, unless I am driving at very high speed, I don't really need to brake for so long to shave off speed. Since I am driving on public roads, going too fast is not a good idea.

You should find a better route to practice.
Using low speed, corners littered trunk road is like learning to play badminton in the living room. This will definitely hamper your learning curve. I would advice not to try these on trunk roads to be honest.

Is there a wide, quiet and long road for you to do this instead?

 

[RENESIS VIII]

You should find a better route to practice.
Using low speed, corners littered trunk road is like learning to play badminton in the living room. This will definitely hamper your learning curve. I would advice not to try these on trunk roads to be honest.

Is there a wide, quiet and long road for you to do this instead?

As far as I know, there are long and wide roads. But they are not really quiet. There are cars occasionally but not to the extent of causing traffic jams.

 

[vr2turbo]

As far as I know, there are long and wide roads. But they are not really quiet. There are cars occasionally but not to the extent of causing traffic jams.

Go further to ipoh outskirts trunk road......

 

[Tom]

As far as I know, there are long and wide roads. But they are not really quiet. There are cars occasionally but not to the extent of causing traffic jams.

how is your progress so far Renesis?

 

[raining]

Clutch is more expensive than brake pads...i rather use brake

 

[vr2turbo]

Clutch is more expensive than brake pads...i rather use brake

Once clutch is locked, no on going friction. whereas brakes are and when brakes gets too hot it fades....

 

[RENESIS VIII]

how is your progress so far Renesis?

It has been a while since this thread is active. I'm surprised that you still remember this thread, Tom.

Still can't do heel toe properly due to my pedals not aligned at the same level. Haven't do any changes to the pedals yet. So, every time when I try to reach the throttle pedal with my heel, I need to apply a lot of pressure to the brake pedal in order for my heel to touch the throttle pedal. So, for now, I din't practice on heel toe.

But for rev matching, I'm getting quite familiar with it already. Doing it most of the time during driving now. Now, rev matching had almost become like a habit for me to do every time I downshift. Thanks for your tips earlier regarding rev matching. If not, I probably wouldn't have done it.

One thing I noticed after performing rev match, downshifts are way smoother than downshifts without rev match. Like if I din't rev match and just downshifts, I can feel the car jerking especially if the RPM jumps quite high.

 

[sweelt]

Heel toe I try before.... for shoe size 12+ like me.
No success....lol

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Heel toe I try before.... for shoe size 12+ like me.
No success....lol

Is your pedal properly aligned? If not, it will be hard. Like my stock Wira pedals. The accelerator/throttle pedal is positioned lower than the brake pedal.

 

[sweelt]

heel-toe technique, is like PHd for driving manual. ?

 

[tonyparir]

Very hard for me to do heel and toe..

Every time i press the brake with my toe and to rev match i moved my heel, it seems unavoidable that I lift my toe hence the braking is not consistent... Any advise or pointers?

 

[RENESIS VIII]

heel-toe technique, is like PHd for driving manual. ?

Sort of I guess. Then rev matching is like masters level? After that only phd for heel toe.

Very hard for me to do heel and toe..

Every time i press the brake with my toe and to rev match i moved my heel, it seems unavoidable that I lift my toe hence the braking is not consistent... Any advise or pointers?

For my pedals which is not aligned, my braking is not consistent too. I need to put in a lot of brake pressure for my heel to reach the throttle pedal.