Honda’s CEO: Civic Hybrid Was A Mistake

[MeraBoy]

We’ve been hearing a lot about Honda’s upcoming hybrid-only model that is supposed to go head-to-head with the Toyota Prius. Honda CEO, Takeo Fukui, is now out and about speaking very confidently of Honda’s upcoming hybrid plans. First of all, Fukui feels that Honda suffered a huge misstep by rolling out a hybrid version of its Civic instead of a hybrid-only model.

“The real competition has just begun,” Fukui said. “Until now, it has been an image-based competition, not a business-based competition.”

Fukui said that Honda will approach the hybrid-war by attacking the pricing. The hybrid-only model that is expected to hit the market in early 2009 where pricing is expected to be below the Honda Civic Hybrid and right above the Honda Fit. The Civic Hybrid starts at $23,235, including shipping.

Honda hopes to sell 200,000 units annually for its global hybrid, 100,000 of which are expected to come from North American sales.

After the unnamed hybrid-only model hits the market, Honda is also planning the global release of a hybrid sports car based on the CR-Z concept.

Further reading:
http://forums.caranddriver.com/auto/board/message?board.id=11&thread.id=138476&view=by_date_ascending&page=1
http://ev.inel.gov/hev.shtml

Source:
https://home.autonews.com/clickshare/authenticateUserSubscription.do?CSProduct=autonews-premium&CSAuthReq=1:273303545317863:AID|IDAID=20071224/ANA03/712240322|ID=:B603D590AAEEB7581CA000DE3637FFE0&AID=20071224/ANA03/712240322&title=Honda%3A%20Hybrid%20war%20has%20just%20begun&ID=&CSTargetURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autonews.com%2Fapps%2Fpbcs.dll%2Fexec%3Fname%3DMHCPayPerArticleResponse%26nocache%3D1%26AssignSessionID%3D273303545317863%26AID%3D20071224%2FANA03%2F712240322 (Subscription Required)
via http://www.egmcartech.com/2007/12/24/honda-ceo-hybrid-war-has-just-begun-civic-hybrid-was-a-mistake/

 

[bien335]

A mistake??

More of a marketing blunder I'd say. Engineering-wise, its splendid.

And the Civic Hybrid in Malaysia? Come on, look at the price tag.

The Malaysian Gov'ment should ENCOURAGE the people to drive enviromentally friendly vehicles. Diesels are dirtier than petrol engines (dont be fooled by the low fuel consumption, diesel engines emit more particulates)

To encourage Malaysians to drive (or buy in this case) the Hybrid, the tax imposed should be lowered. Or even given a subsidy.

The price difference over the Civic Hybrid and the 2.0S model can only be justified over a TEN year period, and that is just on fuel savings alone.

Just look south at our neighbour. The Hybrid there is similarly priced with the automatic 2.0 Si. Over here?? its a RM35k difference!

Other governments give tax breaks to hybrid car owners. Not only that. they are also exempt from roadtax or city congestion fees. heck, they even get cheaper parking rates!!

 

[si|verfish]

Hybrids aren't all that better than their petrol or diesel siblings despite what the marketing people and certain governments say. To sort out who is properly green you've got to look at their environmental impact from cradle to grave, the total footprint. Hybrids take more to manufacture and more to get rid of.

And they aren't all that better than the best petrol cars either (in terms of fuel economy of course). You have to drive like a monk to get anywhere near the fuel consumption figures given. If you drive normally like a normal person would, you'd be getting maybe slightly better (or equal) what you get from the most fuel efficient petrol only cars.

Modern diesel and modern diesel engines are way way way cleaner than what they were a decade ago. It's no joke that the Europeans have so embraced them (V Power Diesel anyone?). And you can't deny the outstanding fuel economy you get from diesels. Less fossil fuel burnt, less emissions. And for applications in heavy vehicles, there is still no better solution.

And on the subject of tax exemptions, should you give tax exemptions to someone driving a Lexus 460h over someone driving a Perodua Viva just because the former is driving a hybrid?

 

[csl]

Look at the design concept, I doubt it will save fuel if driven by heavy footers. If 70 years old grandma maybe ok la. All subsidy or tax break should only be given those cars which are no fuel consumption, like solar powered, hydrogen or etc.

 

[bien335]

In the US, the Insight and Prius are given tax incentives, free parking, and many more. They confirm to the ULEV/SULEV category.

The Lexus 460h was never tuned/designed for low fuel consumption. Its more towards Toyotas capability of applying its Hybrid technology in any car they want and deem possible/marketable.

Its more towards achieving more power without adding displacement, hence increasing FC.

Perhaps a hybrid diesel after this?

 

[si|verfish]

I'm ok if they want to give tax incentives and other perks to cars which are fuel efficient and have low emissions. Those should be the criteria, regardless of what kind of fuel it burns or what type of vehicle it is.

It's the tax exemption for hybrids without discretion which is wrong. Hell I can drive a Hummer hybrid (if such a thing exists) into London and pay less in congestion charges and shit like that than another guy in a supermini. And that is wrong.

 

[bien335]

It's the tax exemption for hybrids without discretion which is wrong. Hell I can drive a Hummer hybrid (if such a thing exists) into London and pay less in congestion charges and shit like that than another guy in a supermini. And that is wrong.

I agree with you bro, its upon discretion also, but if a vehicle is primarily designed as a hybrid (cue fuel saving, enviro-friendly) it deserves what it deserves.

Its ridiculous if a Hummer Hybrid was given the same advantages as the smaller and friendlier hybrid vehicles.

I'd rather ride my bicycle.

 

[si|verfish]

Back on the subject of hybrids, I'm still unconvinced that they are a solution. Hybrids are a stop gap until greener fuels and drive trains become much much more viable for mass production (which I feel can be today itself, if fuel companies and a host of other people, don't make so much money out of it). The whole idea of hybrids sounds like a duct tape fix; "I know...let's take a small engine, mate it with a small electric engine, throw a bunch of batteries into the mix with some clever electronics and make a normal car slightly more efficient...". The end result is something slightly greener than average but takes a whole lot more to build, but generally not as good as normal cars in other aspects of motoring.

 

[Z_Edition]

Hey, I thought modern diesel engines are cleaner compared to their petrol counterparts. Anyways, for long distance driving, hybrids are good. But, for city driving, hybrids can't beat the diesels.

 

[si|verfish]

Diesels are tops at long distances as well. 24 hours of Le Mans anyone?

 

[bien335]

Diesels are tops at long distances as well. 24 hours of Le Mans anyone?

R10 FTW!

Dont be fooled by the current UK/EU pollution benchmarking of CO2 emissions. Diesels release more particulates (the heavier, dirtier bits) but thanx to particulate filters, they are not released into the atmosphere.

And yes, hybrids isnt what the future of the automobile is.

Hydrogen and Fuel Cell tech is making leaps and bounds in improvement.

Honda is going to sell the FCX Clarity model in the NA market. You can literally drink out of its tailpipes.

 

[MeraBoy]

... Anyways, for long distance driving, hybrids are good. But, for city driving, hybrids can't beat the diesels.

...if i'm not wrong, hybrid is only good for city drive, not highway; but not sure "for city driving, hybrids can't beat the diesels"

 

[MeraBoy]

to me, the electric car is the solution with a stable technology. Anyone aware of GM had sold the EV1 somewhere in the 90s; but withdrawn it after a very short period of time. The EV1 received an overwhelming response. Check out YouTube for "EV1" for very nice videos.
Before this, US had quite of electric-powered vehicle; then changed to internal combustion engine. Some claimed it is the conspiracy of the oil giant to slow down the introduction of electric car cause u dun need rocket science technology to build it, unlike Fuel Cell, Hydrogen Car etc.

 

[si|verfish]

...if i'm not wrong, hybrid is only good for city drive, not highway; but not sure "for city driving, hybrids can't beat the diesels"

Actually they are only good when you can make the least use of the petrol engine. If you can drive in a way so that you are running only the electric motor more of the time, then that's good.

Therefore, on a highway, if you cruise in top gear most of the time, with a light foot, chances are you'll be getting better mileage.

In the City, it generally involves a lot of stop start situations where you need to accelerate sharply and that's bad because then you engage the petrol engine. If you pull away smoothly and slowly, then you should still get good mileage, but then you'll be pissing off a lot of people who get stuck waiting behind you.

If you drive normally, like you would a normal car, I would think you'll get better mileage during highway cruising rather than in the city.

 

[si|verfish]

to me, the electric car is the solution with a stable technology. Anyone aware of GM had sold the EV1 somewhere in the 90s; but withdrawn it after a very short period of time. The EV1 received an overwhelming response. Check out YouTube for "EV1" for very nice videos.
Before this, US had quite of electric-powered vehicle; then changed to internal combustion engine. Some claimed it is the conspiracy of the oil giant to slow down the introduction of electric car cause u dun need rocket science technology to build it, unlike Fuel Cell, Hydrogen Car etc.

Electric cars also isn't a be all end all green solution, chiefly because the electricity has to come from somewhere and if it comes from a power plant consuming fossil fuels, it is basically the same. Although, with greater advances in batteries and electric motors, they can be made to be much more power efficient than a combustion engine vehicle.

That said, electric vehicles pose their own challenges. The batteries especially, are a sticky problem. There are environmental issues to think about both in production and in disposal.

 

[MeraBoy]

Electric cars also isn't a be all end all green solution, chiefly because the electricity has to come from somewhere and if it comes from a power plant consuming fossil fuels, it is basically the same. Although, with greater advances in batteries and electric motors, they can be made to be much more power efficient than a combustion engine vehicle. That said, electric vehicles pose their own challenges. The batteries especially, are a sticky problem. There are environmental issues to think about both in production and in disposal.

of course, the electric car is Not The Solution; but at least the areas required attention is quite convergent & relatively manageable to monitor the power plant & batteries, which r the 2 major concerns. For power plant, by then there is a need for the G to push for more sustainable /cost effective solution, eg a mixture of hydro + wind + solar ?; while the battery technology do see some progress with Toshiba's latest 5-minute-90%-recharge and lasts 10 years SCiB (Super Charge ion Battery) battery, which will start shipping in March 2008. Further reading : http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22240865/.

 

[MeraBoy]

...if i'm not wrong, hybrid is only good for city drive, not highway; but not sure "for city driving, hybrids can't beat the diesels"

yes, i just knew it's right cos i read it b4, & here it's the proof:

Toyota Prius : It is a four-door sedan that seats five, and the powertrain is capable of accelerating the vehicle to speeds up to 15 mph (24 kph) on electric power alone..... In order to reduce emissions, the Prius can accelerate to a speed of about 15 mph (24 kph) before switching on the gasoline engine...This contributes to the better city mileage than highway mileage.---- How Hybrid Cars Work