4AGE bhp figures from dyno

[howard?!]

wow,pcmoddingmy is really the sifu lah....i totally dun understand wat is the AFR about...
bro pcmoddingmy,when u free to yumcha and pass some of the knowledge to me lah?

bro scottwrx,u're car whp is quite impressive if ur car really is stendet kaw kaw lah...

 

[km_chew]

Sigh, how stock it is, compare side by side with the B series engine sure lose out .. Wonder how the Celica's BHP is ..

Bump: Sigh, how stock it is, compare side by side with the B series engine sure lose out .. Wonder how the Celica's BHP is ..

 

[synchron]

Toyota engine create more torque than HP. Honda engine got more HP and than torque.

Reason behind is that Toyota got short rod ratio and Honda got a higher rod ratio.

 

[scottwrx]

Sigh, how stock it is, compare side by side with the B series engine sure lose out .. Wonder how the Celica's BHP is ..

Bump: Sigh, how stock it is, compare side by side with the B series engine sure lose out .. Wonder how the Celica's BHP is ..

err.... cannot be sure also.... coz trumpet + extrator + piping + flywheel can makan b series also...

last time i dyno got a b16c mod kau kau also 175 at engine only mah... so be positive a bit lah!! we dun need valve lifting can achieve 160bhp consider ok already..

we win in terms of low end torque and response and also fuel consumption... in city area, by the time vtec bukak.. we already say bye bye..... actually b series is only fast in track or long stretch h/way, normal road condition almost the same as bt

btw celica 2zzge i think its around 190 bhp..

 

[km_chew]

Lolx ... Agree to the fact, same horse to horse, 20V got more torque

I've an objective which is the same as Kenny @ Kegani Auto ... Hence, i'm driving a Toyota, not a Honda ...

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

bro.. got the chart already, according to northern garage, the bottom one is on wheel figure, as calculated by the machine... around 133bhp @7600rpm..


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3134/3111225830_ca3d41374c.jpg?v=0

Hmm....different tuner or dyno use different calculations, I guess. I've just checked with Amoil when I was there the other day. According to them, as a general formula, transmission loss is averaged at 22%. So meaning if your flywheel Hp is 160 x 0.78 (22%), then your on wheel Hp should be: 124.8 ps & not 133, bro.:hmmmm:

If your car is stock standard, then 125 ps is more likely coz I've seen quite a few std BT with kinda figure. Aiyar, nevermind la, a few ponies doesn't make that much difference anyway.Like I said, different dyno machine gives different reading anyway, as long as your baby is healthy is what matter most, right ?

Sigh, how stock it is, compare side by side with the B series engine sure lose out .. Wonder how the Celica's BHP is ..

Bump: Sigh, how stock it is, compare side by side with the B series engine sure lose out .. Wonder how the Celica's BHP is ..

Which Celica model ? 2ZZ-GE is 190 ps on spec & about 150 at the wheel.

err.... cannot be sure also.... coz trumpet + extrator + piping + flywheel can makan b series also...

It wouldn't be fair win if the Toyota's been upgraded with all those stuff to beat a standard B16a. What if the B16a is also modded with the same spec; including 4 throttles ?

ast time i dyno got a b16c mod kau kau also 175 at engine only mah... so be positive a bit lah!! we dun need valve lifting can achieve 160bhp consider ok already..

It's not a mater of positive or not; it's a fact that if a B16a is only running 175 ps at the wheel, trust me; it's definitely very far away from modded kaw-kaw yet, bro.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting Honda or anything but I've really seen lots of very, very fast Vtecs. These days, in the underground drags, NA Vtecs are playing against turbos & winning, serious.

 

[scottwrx]

may be gua.. different machine used different calculation... juz wondering, since the dyno is done on floor rollers ( dunno what it is called), the figure should show on wheel one mah.. how come only can show on engine figure but not on wheel?? juz curious...
cannot work it out...

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

may be gua.. different machine used different calculation... juz wondering, since the dyno is done on floor rollers ( dunno what it is called), the figure should show on wheel one mah.. how come only can show on engine figure but not on wheel?? juz curious...
cannot work it out...

As far as I know, they can choose to print either one or both. When I dynoed in Speedworks donkey years ago, I got both, on flywheel & on wheel charts.

 

[scottwrx]

then i think if got budget wanna do another dyno already.... this time with n1 muffler.. muakaka..

coz i according to the guy who dynoed, he said that typical transmission power lost is 20%... anyways doesnt matter lah... as long as my car is healthy and i m satisfied with the power...but still 10l/100km

hey bro.. u come from sitiawan rite? i heard from my fren that there is a very nice french restaurant there woh... can fight with Indulgence in ipoh.. got a place like that ar?? if got next time i go sitiawan then go find u ok?? bring me there loh..

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

hey bro.. u come from sitiawan rite? i heard from my fren that there is a very nice french restaurant there woh... can fight with Indulgence in ipoh.. got a place like that ar?? if got next time i go sitiawan then go find u ok?? bring me there loh..

French restaurant ? So far there's only Secret Recipe lor, if you say it's something like Indulgence. Give me the name of the restaurant, that'll be easier. There's any western food restaurant which is the best steak in town is called Full Pan; not exactly Victoria's Station but can eat lar.

Don't worry, just make sure you come down only, k.

 

[howard?!]

scottwrx,if u're going to sitiawan,let me know, i'll like to tag along too,if u've no problem with that...haha..
bro 2O2R,u free next weekend,planning to go look for u in sitiawan lah...

 

[scomatic]

err.... cannot be sure also.... coz trumpet + extrator + piping + flywheel can makan b series also...

last time i dyno got a b16c mod kau kau also 175 at engine only mah... so be positive a bit lah!! we dun need valve lifting can achieve 160bhp consider ok already..

we win in terms of low end torque and response and also fuel consumption... in city area, by the time vtec bukak.. we already say bye bye..... actually b series is only fast in track or long stretch h/way, normal road condition almost the same as bt

btw celica 2zzge i think its around 190 bhp..

bro... Honda got B16C ka? I heard so far only heard about B16A and B16B... now produced B16C already? Sorry I'm Honda noob here, can guide me how to compare with among B16A/B and B16C series engine?

 

[cruiser78]

I use burger ae92. fill when its nearly dry then fill up to the tank cap. i got rm110 while fuel price is rm1.92

sorry for the late reply

 

[pcmoddingmy]

Surely there's no B16C, unless using parts from B18C on B16A or B16B I guess. Usually 20V BT would have no trouble keeping up with B16A, but B16B (TypeR) is noticeably faster.
I mean it would still be fair for 20V BT 5spd to have some intake/exhaust mods as the overall halfcut cost for 20V BT is about half the price of B16A.

But you'll need a lot of internal mods if you were to beat a stock B16B (halfcut price over RM12k). So if you bought a BT h/cut for RM3.5k, you'd still have about RM9K more value and possibility to spend that RM9K to mod the 20V BT and outperform a "stock" B16B. At the end of the day, it'll all about the dough... :wavey:

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

scottwrx,if u're going to sitiawan,let me know, i'll like to tag along too,if u've no problem with that...haha..
bro 2O2R,u free next weekend,planning to go look for u in sitiawan lah...

I should be available next weekend; according to my schedule now. If you've confirmed your visit, pls give a call in advance, ya. Howard has my number, right ?

Surely there's no B16C, unless using parts from B18C on B16A or B16B I guess. Usually 20V BT would have no trouble keeping up with B16A, but B16B (TypeR) is noticeably faster.
I mean it would still be fair for 20V BT 5spd to have some intake/exhaust mods as the overall halfcut cost for 20V BT is about half the price of B16A.

But you'll need a lot of internal mods if you were to beat a stock B16B (halfcut price over RM12k). So if you bought a BT h/cut for RM3.5k, you'd still have about RM9K more value and possibility to spend that RM9K to mod the 20V BT and outperform a "stock" B16B. At the end of the day, it'll all about the dough... :wavey:

If the point of view is based on the calculation of halfcut value, then you've a point there, PCMod & I agree with you.

I'm measuring the difference in terms of machine vs machine; meaning if you spent RM 10k modding the 20v, then the B16 also must equally spend RM 10k to modify, then race.

I think you still remember how Tsuchiya's AE86 got left behind by a JWRC Suzuki Swift & then how the Seekers EG Civic thrashed the Swift in the Hot Version video ? So from there, roughly we can gauge the difference between them.

However, this is only my humble opinion. I've no intention of degrading Toyota or anything coz I'm also a Toyota fan & owner.



Bump: Here's another similiar video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD1-IcT3tSE

 

[scottwrx]

err.. sorry ya... typing mistake.... confused with b18...hehehe......nood about honda also lah...

btw bro howard, i m now stationed in penang lah... how u wanna tag along? u fly to pg and i fetch u from the airport wan??
i moved away from k.l some times ago.. if not sure join ur TT in cheras... sigh.... may be next time go k.l then onli join TT loh...

 

[scomatic]

err.. sorry ya... typing mistake.... confused with b18...hehehe......nood about honda also lah...

Oh... No wonder la....

 

[TRD16v]

Last time i spent a lot on upgrade and dyno my 16v but at the end also lost to BT engine.

to the former BT sifu.

 

[pcmoddingmy]

Bro 2O2R, I think you are referring to Seeker EG6 235hp B16B (1.8cc+4throttle) right? Well, in that case, I can't imagine how much dough went into that EG6. It is definitely no where near the maximum hp a 1.6cc 20V can churn out (around 200hp only). The rally Swift also has 1.6cc (around 230hp!), but the gearbox (sequential manual gbox) alone costs a fortune. K's poor AE86 was relatively a bone stock 20V BT with only 170ps.
So it wouldn't surprise me if the Seeker EG6 > JWRC Swift > K's AE86 20V BT

Anyways, here are the vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4FoxpxNZ9A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvgOJjunTH0

Anyways, in a case where a user with stock 20V BT vs a user with stock B16A, the 20V user would be handicapped cost wise, unless both engine/transplant can have equal cost. IMO, cost over hp should also be considered when comparing, especially when it involves engine swaps. Regardless, we toyota users should be pretty happy if you can beat a stock B16A as you'd prolly spent half the cash and get about the same/better performance. That's what I meant...

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

Bro 2O2R, I think you are referring to Seeker EG6 235hp B16B (1.8cc+4throttle) right? Well, in that case, I can't imagine how much dough went into that EG6. It is definitely no where near the maximum hp a 1.6cc 20V can churn out (around 200hp only). The rally Swift also has 1.6cc (around 230hp!), but the gearbox (sequential manual gbox) alone costs a fortune. K's poor AE86 was relatively a bone stock 20V BT with only 170ps.
So it wouldn't surprise me if the Seeker EG6 > JWRC Swift > K's AE86 20V BT

Yeah, it must've cost a fortune to build an engine like that EG. In terms of balance, I've no question on the AE86 but in terms of speed, the Toyota is still 1 step behind Honda (comparing the 4AG against the B series of Honda).

Anyways, in a case where a user with stock 20V BT vs a user with stock B16A, the 20V user would be handicapped cost wise, unless both engine/transplant can have equal cost. IMO, cost over hp should also be considered when comparing, especially when it involves engine swaps. Regardless, we toyota users should be pretty happy if you can beat a stock B16A as you'd prolly spent half the cash and get about the same/better performance. That's what I meant...

That, I totally agree with you, bro. I was in JC's dynoing my Orange, then after that a Chinese chap with a 2 door yellow EK, B18c + B20 block (rest std) + e-manage blue. Know what, it produced slightly less Hp than mine ! While waiting for his turn at the dyno, he saw my Hp figure. His face was so long that the chin almost touched the floor ! Kamal was there too.

He then spoke to us & asked me how much I paid for my Beams halfcut. When I told him, he was even more frustrated. He said he spent more than 3X of I did & it produced less Hp than mine ! Poor "rich" guy.... The best part was he said,"I'm going to switch to Toyota after this !"