Originally posted by cyclonite@Apr 4 2005, 10:59
I think even if you use a pad rated at 650 degrees, you will still have fade because the surface of your discs heats up so much that the surface material evaporates of the disc, this creates a thin vapor layer between your pads and disc therefore giving you fade.
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Cyclonite, you should never rule out braided brake hose. They were invented for a reason. Braided lines help pedal feel and brake modulation. Unlike the stock rubber hose, they do not expand with internal pressure. Braided lines help make sure that all the pedal force gets to the caliper
There are three kinds of fade commonly encountered in fast driving; pad fade, green fade and fluid fade. Below are listed an explanation of each.
Pad Fade
Pad fade occurs for several reasons. All friction material (brake pad stuff) has a coefficient of friction curve over temperature. Friction materials have an optimal working temperature where the coefficient of friction is the highest. Sometimes you can use the brakes so hard that you get the temperature over the point of maximum friction to where the coefficient of friction curve starts to decline.
The mechanics of this decline in the coefficient of friction are varied. At a certain temperature, certain elements of the pad can melt or smear causing a lubrication effect, this is the classic glazed pad. Usually the organic binder resin starts to go first, then even the metallic elements of the friction material can start to melt. At really high temperatures the friction material starts to vaporize and the pad can sort of hydroplane on a boundary layer of vaporized metal and friction material which acts like a lubricant. Pad fade is felt as a car that still has a decent, non mushy feeling brake pedal that won’t stop even if you are pushing as hard as you can. Usually it builds somewhat slowly giving you time to compensate for it ,but some friction materials have a sudden drop off of friction when the heat is put on them resulting in sudden dangerous fade.
Green Fade
This is perhaps the most dangerous type of fade that has injured more race car drivers than any other type of brake incident.
Green fade is a type of fade that manifests itself on brand new brake pads. Brake pads are usually made of different types of heat resistant materials bound together with a phenolic resin binder. These are thermosetting plastic resins with a high heat resistance. On a new brake pad, these resins will out-gas or cure when used hard on their first few heat cycles. The new pad can hydroplane on this layer of excreted gas. Green fade is dangerous because many people assume that new brakes are perfect and can be used hard right off the bat. Green fade typically will occur much earlier than normal fade so it can catch a driver that is used to a certain car’s characteristics unaware. Typically the onset of green fade is rather sudden, further increasing the danger factor. I was a victim of green fade once. The crew forgot to tell me that new brake pads were installed on the car and when I went out on the track, I was flying down the escape road at about the third corner! Some teams have a new pads warning sign that they place on the steering wheel to inform the drive to be careful on his first few laps.
Green fade can occur if you change the pads and drive on the street for a few hundred or even thousand miles, never braking hard, then suddenly start using the brakes hard. I think that this is the fade that many list member complain about on their own cars.
Green fade can be prevented by bedding the pads. This is a simple procedure to boil off the resins and break in the pads under controlled conditions which I will explain later.
Fluid fade
Fluid fade is caused by the boiling of the brake fluid in the calipers. This produces bubbles in the brake system. Since bubbles are compressible, this makes for a soft spongy pedal. In worse cases, the pedal can plunge to the floor with very little slowing! Fluid fade can be avoided by running a high grade racing type brake fluid and/or frequent changes of brake fluid. Also if you change the pads before they get super thin, the remaining friction material will help insulate the calipers from the heat. Some people have had some success with having swaintech spray thermal barrier coating on the backing plate of the pads to help isolate the heat but I have never tried this.
Fluid fade usually has a gradual onset.
If you are having an exceptionally bad day your brakes can fade from all three of the above reasons at the same time! The reason why I am explaining them to you is so that you can identify what kind of fade that you are suffering from and do the proper thing to fix the type of fade that you have with the correct countermeasure. If you are experiencing pad fade, switching brands of brake fluid won’t help. If you are getting fluid fade, the trickiest carbon pads won’t stop you a bit sooner. If you have the finest brake parts available, you could still fall prey to green fade.
