feeling after banana manifold

[teztozterone]

Oh i see... thanks for the feedback guys :)

Any places recommended to make these turbo headers?

thanks

 

[jinkl]

so meaning that if we install a banana manifold with stock turbine actually not require a wastegate?

how about if we install a wastegate...what will actually happen tothe engine?

if u install wastegate , the engine will blow laaaa hehehhehehe
, nothing will happen to the engine la , no diffrence u install wastegate or no wastegate


and someppl saying air fuel ratio will be affected cos of changing header ,
as i believe , we all run on MAF , unless some of u already on standalones
if we are using MAF sensors , if the turbo is spooling faster for low end or giving more top end or whtever , ur air flows thru the MAF , MAF calculates the air , in the mapping vs RPM n etc , gives out the fueling for the engine , so y must there be a retune for ? stock ecu should be ok , bt 9krpm , errr do u know ur stock turbo dies at 6.5krpm for td05's , if u r on a drag race , the guy who shifted at 6.5krpm would be advance of u if u waited till 9krpm :D
and as i know our stock 4g63 valve n springs are already floating at 9krpm thus giving u lesser power. a short route header + stiffer valve springs + high cams = power u need for high rev machine.

 

[clockwork]

if u install wastegate , the engine will blow laaaa hehehhehehe
, nothing will happen to the engine la , no diffrence u install wastegate or no wastegate


and someppl saying air fuel ratio will be affected cos of changing header ,
as i believe , we all run on MAF , unless some of u already on standalones
if we are using MAF sensors , if the turbo is spooling faster for low end or giving more top end or whtever , ur air flows thru the MAF , MAF calculates the air , in the mapping vs RPM n etc , gives out the fueling for the engine , so y must there be a retune for ? stock ecu should be ok , bt 9krpm , errr do u know ur stock turbo dies at 6.5krpm for td05's , if u r on a drag race , the guy who shifted at 6.5krpm would be advance of u if u waited till 9krpm :D
and as i know our stock 4g63 valve n springs are already floating at 9krpm thus giving u lesser power. a short route header + stiffer valve springs + high cams = power u need for high rev machine.

thanks for the feedback bro!!!

 

[kenzo]

wat jinkl say was true, ur turbo cant breathe no more after 6.5k rpm man...
if ur running ur stock turbine with actuator then u dont need a wastegate thus using ur actuator to control ur boost instead, unless u have change turbo with no actuator valve then yeah u have to get a wastegate...

 

[clockwork]

icic....but few of my friend also run their stock turbo with extenal wastegate n banana manifold.....mayb they like the sound of w/g.

 

[jinkl]

they usually fix external wastegate to play high boost
high boost with actuator is nt so safe
thats the reason ? :)

icic....but few of my friend also run their stock turbo with extenal wastegate n banana manifold.....mayb they like the sound of w/g.

 

[clockwork]

they usually fix external wastegate to play high boost
high boost with actuator is nt so safe
thats the reason ? :)

okok...now i understand more...thanks bro.

 

[cHeMiCaL_]

stock ecu provide safety margin so you wont blow the engine - however, at huge the expense of the potential performance. MAF only efficient of calculating A/F ratio below certain boost pressure set by manufacturer - it's a hardware limitation. As such, you may run lean / rich when overboosting using stock ECU.

e.g if your MAF set only to support 1.5bar, boosting anything beyond 1.5bar will render the MAF sensor inaccurate and guessing on the air volume coming in. In typical situation, your car will run richer than it should, as the stock ecu will make assumption of highest volume of air scenario. Rich A/F at high RPM will rob power and waste petrol.

Solution to this is to run MAP sensors and tuneable ECU.

Tuning is very important if you change manifold since changing better flow manifold or even a wastegate will automatically effect stock boost setting in turbo cars.

feel free to correct me.

 

[jinkl]

stock ecu provide safety margin so you wont blow the engine - however, at huge the expense of the potential performance. MAF only efficient of calculating A/F ratio below certain boost pressure set by manufacturer - it's a hardware limitation. As such, you may run lean / rich when overboosting using stock ECU.

e.g if your MAF set only to support 1.5bar, boosting anything beyond 1.5bar will render the MAF sensor inaccurate and guessing on the air volume coming in. In typical situation, your car will run richer than it should, as the stock ecu will make assumption of highest volume of air scenario. Rich A/F at high RPM will rob power and waste petrol.

Solution to this is to run MAP sensors and tuneable ECU.

Tuning is very important if you change manifold since changing better flow manifold or even a wastegate will automatically effect stock boost setting in turbo cars.

feel free to correct me.

i do agree in a way hehe :)
mitsu 609 MAF are capable of 330hp on wheel proven
ok this part is not right , MAF doesnt detect boost :)
it detect Air Flow, thats y its called Air Flow sensor
u can boost 1.5bar with a td05 and 1.5bar with the td04
the MAF would not read how much boost is there
because at the MAF section of ur car has 0 boost ,
there is no pressure at the intake of the compressor

so basically , air flow sensor reads flow
flow of air is calculate in lb/min or cfm
1.5bar of td05 is far more air than 1.5bar of td04
what actually performs boost cut in ur car is not the MAF
its the boost sensor selenoid as i know in mitsu cars la

ok back to our topic , so if we change the banana manifold
it doesnt change the CFM of the intake alot , it only enchances the efficiency
of ur exhaust flow , it would indirectly change little bit of CFM
since ur turbine wheel would spin in a better way
u only need tuning if and only if u increased ur boost levels
which directly increases ur cfm flow.
u cant say now i using td04 1bar , now i put td06 , i run 1bar also la
cos ecu can tahan mar, its nt right , CFM of td04 would be in 400's cfm , td06's would be in its 600's.

ops chemical , nt all i said is for reply of ur quote , just saying generally
finally a nice topic to discuss bout :)
anyways, hope to get all of ur inputs too , who knows where my brain went wrong
our

 

[cHeMiCaL_]

good finding jinkl, my explaination more towards layman. Essentially it's the same of what i'm trying to share...

but maybe i was making people confuse with my explaination. MAF dont detect boost, but MAF provide info to ecu to calculate correct a/f to match the boost level. If boosting more than MAF's CFM capacity, the ecu would render a/f off the ideal scale.

i hope i'm not making people more confused! :)

 

[clockwork]

very good n great explaination from jinkl & chemical.thanks to all here.

 

[clockwork]

banana manifold & external wastegate installed....after tuning gain another 30HP on dyno sheet,top end also feel quit power than stock but turbo kick in around 4000rpm....before than can feel at 3500rpm....must i replace the turbo or others reason?

 

[cHeMiCaL_]

lagging is the drawback effect having bigger tubular manifold. typically, if you want faster spooling turbine (smaller A/R or ball bearing turbo) would help, but at the expense of top hp i would assume..

 

[clockwork]

icic...thanks cHeMiCal....