Sepang Drag Battle September 2004

[MrNismo]

Originally posted by wira4+Sep 10 2004, 11:52 PM-->

QUOTE (wira4 @ Sep 10 2004, 11:52 PM)

--QuoteBegin-Eevolution3

@Sep 10 2004, 06:30 PM Hope you dun mind me answering that.. The Pro start uses an external module connected to the F Con V on which launch rpm is selectable in 200 rpm increments depending on the selected working range rpm.. the additional beauty of this is that fuel is automatically added during the activation of the throttle if the computer sees that the mixture is leaning during the launch sequence.. The Autronic SMC and SM2 has this feature thru use of its anti-lag chip but of course the SM2 being the more advanced ecu has all of what the F Con V Pro has except that there is no fuel enrichment function. When the throttle is held open to activate the launch, the EGT temperatures spikes up with the disadvantage is that the throttle cannot be held open too long or else you will have a meltdown on the turbine wheel.. Same goes for the Haltech. Not sure on the Microtech...but they are pretty close in the functions and setup..

I think what you have described is known as "anti-lag system" or "misfiring system" or the layman's term as "bang bang system". This is not the same as launch control or some call it "dual stage rev limiter". Yes,anti-lag system will give rise to high EGT and may result in burnt exhaust valves or cracked manifold. The beauty of this system is that it allows you to spool the turbo when you open the throttle to any % and the boost will build up while you are preparing for launching. You probably need to set up the "launch control" to limit the rpm(and thus the boost) so that your wheels will not spin like mad and defeat the whole purpose of a decent launch. Most decent computers such as Motec, Autronics, Haltech will basically allow the user to enrich the fuel mixture and to retard timing during operation of the anti-lag system. The launch control, as I understand it, is simply rpm limiting at the activation of a switch by the user. The rpm is selectable at the user's choice. Once the desirable rpm is set, the user can just simply go WOT without overreving the engine while waiting to launch. If you are running ball bearing turbo or small turbo, you may be seeing some boost or even more by doing this. This mode is normally preferred to the anti-lag system. Hope I am not far out of topic. :) [/b][/quote] Eevolution, By 'external module', do you mean that there is an additional hardware device other than the F-CON V Pro ECU itself in order to use the Prostart function? Wira4, The HKS Prostart does allow you to go WOT while limiting rpm and spooling the turbo for launching. Don't think the size of the turbo matters. I was told that the GR Evo has 1.0bar of boost ready for launching, while mine only has 0.6bar.

 

[BLaCkHoWLiNG]

If MrN launches at 1bar of boost, he'll overshot and land on d moon!

 

[MrNismo]

Originally posted by BLaCkHoWLiNG@Sep 12 2004, 12:05 PM
If MrN launches at 1bar of boost, he'll overshot and land on d moon!

I think my engine will blow and land on the moon while the shell of the car remains on earth... :D

 

[phoenixpower]

Originally posted by MrNismo@Sep 8 2004, 01:38 AM
Not true.

Engine and car is fully built in Singapore by Garage R. Tuned by Garage R using F CON V Pro. Owner is Singaporean. Driver is Malaysian but Singapore PR.

Singaporean rich? Hehehe friend I think there are a few cars that night that doesn't spend any much lesser than that car....

MrNismo,

Sorry for my ignorance but could it be that the engine is a crate engine from HKS Japan (ie long block) excluding external hardwares like fuel, forced induction etc which is then assembled and tuned by Garage R?

Was the run assisted by N2O?


FYI, most of the successful 4G63 powered drag cars are using the factory spec'ed stroke of 88mm. Seems like the combination of engine geometry vs. RPM has major effect on the power production.


Btw,Please correct me if im wrong.





Regards.

 

[MrNismo]

Yupe the engine is still maintaining it's standard stroke with HKS upsize piston, forged rod and crank. I've seen the HKS crate engine on the Garage R demo Evo 8 and it has a serial number craved on the head itself while this one don't. Anyway, only the engine itself won't make a fast car out of any car. I'd say it's how the car being built and tuned.

Nope the car is not running on Nitrous although rumours has it yes.

 

[Eevolution3]

Yes, there is anti lag and there is also launch control.. there are also external modules sold in the market that does launch control. When the coils are thrown into a mis randomly depending on how many cycles its thrown a miss, the thrown off spark helps keep rpm 'set' during the launch phase .Coupled with the retarded timing and continuous fuel dump will hence spike cylinder pressure to create boost during the so called 'launch phase'. This fuel dump is continuous but not additional. However, not all ecu's support that. The autronic doesn't allow fuel enrichment and only allows part throttle launch. That is why the EGT will continue to rise with time. Haltech allows full throttle launch but not sure about the fuel enrichment though..more like just continuous fuel dump as what is already on the fuel map at that particular rpm. However, with the use of a switch at the clutch pedal, full throttle gear change is also possible la. To make it all work, all ecu's that have launch control capability timing retard is of course necessary or else we'll have the engines ping to death at that point.. :D
Anyway, good that everybody's using launch control except for myself..heh heh..
The selectable module (optional) hooked to the harness allows 5 programmable launch rpm's in 400 rpm range (can be altered). That coupled with the start switch is an optional module to allow Pro Start function in all F Con V Pro's...

 

[wira4]

Originally posted by Eevolution3@Sep 12 2004, 11:53 PM
Haltech allows full throttle launch but not sure about the fuel enrichment though..more like just continuous fuel dump as what is already on the fuel map at that particular rpm. However, with the use of a switch at the clutch pedal, full throttle gear change is also possible la.

Speaking from experience on Haltech, the launch control mode does not require enrichment nor timing retard. I just type in the rpm figure that I feel the car launches best at, activate it, and go WOT while waiting to launch.

The characteristic you described is more akin to anti lag system. It is the retarded timing that makes the an-ti lag work and the fuel to cool the temp down. Just my own 2ct.

On the haltech, it is user adjustable to increase fuel over what is already on the fuel map. I am not sure what you meant by "continuous fuel dump" but I know haltech allows you to select either fuel cut or ignition cut. Perhaps igniton cut is closer to "continuos fuel dump" ?

 

[3939]

This time drag on NIGHT??? If like that, I've been cheated by the drag forum...someone said this time drag race in afternoon...coz the organizer can't get license to race at nite...
* Neva mind la...i'll wait for next month drag*

 

[Eevolution3]

Thats the thing ya see, the Haltech supports the additional fuel enrichment and does not allow exhaust temperatures to go up. I'm sure you're running the ignition cut while allowing additional fuel enrichment for you to hold it at WOT without worrying well the Autronic doesn't. It uses the anti-lag function to enable launch control. NO fuel enrichment, only part throttle, only ignition cut and definitely no WOT on launch...but still allows flat throttle gear change la... :D
What I meant when I say continuous fuel dump is when the ignition is cut, fuel is still being supplied into the cylinders.
Guess the Haltech is a bit better in this area eh...heh heh...

 

[phoenixpower]

Originally posted by MrNismo@Sep 12 2004, 11:35 PM
Yupe the engine is still maintaining it's standard stroke with HKS upsize piston, forged rod and crank. I've seen the HKS crate engine on the Garage R demo Evo 8 and it has a serial number craved on the head itself while this one don't. Anyway, only the engine itself won't make a fast car out of any car. I'd say it's how the car being built and tuned.

Nope the car is not running on Nitrous although rumours has it yes.

True enough the engine itself wont make the car fast. It is the whole combination being put together by the tuner that makes the car quick & fast down the 1/4 mile run.

Actually, im not at all surprise that they ran without N2O as HKS Kansai's Evo4 ran a 10.4secs(last I have heard) with an HKS GT3240. A bigger turbo running at a higher boost will drop the time(of course there are other variables put into the equation to get the times right).


Quickest 4x4, 4 cylinder without the aid of N2O that I know of is 9.3secs.

Garage R is not far off that time.

A job well done to them.


Any ideas on the best 60ft time made?

 

[phoenixpower]

MrNismo,

I was wondering if you know what happened to "CAN1" R32 GTR?

 

[Eevolution3]

Thats the bloody problem, the organizer doesn't record the 60 ft time and if i'm not wrong, there are no sensors placed at the 60 ft mark therefore, no readings... guess its an optional thing for their timing equipment..

Garage G Force is the only tuning house in Japan which has broken the 9 sec barrier with their 9.765 black evo 3 running a GT3540 as well as their current NOS equipped 750 ps Evo 6 also running a GT3540 turbocharger.. both on HKS F Con V Pro setup.. however, its running a JUN 2.2 litre stroker kit..not 2 litre..to have Garage R running such a time here its bloody damn good I'd say.. wonde

However, it seems that they are running different boost on different gears especially on the first three gears for better traction off the line...

 

[wira4]

Originally posted by Eevolution3@Sep 13 2004, 01:07 PM
However, it seems that they are running different boost on different gears especially on the first three gears for better traction off the line...

Wonder if HKS has a product for boost control which is adjustable according to the gear position(not by G-force sensing method). Otherwise, in normal circumstance, boost does vary between gears due to different gearing ratio in different gears.But that is another matter.

 

[Eevolution3]

If I may recall, yes, through an interface using a thumb switch specific boost can be selected through each gear.. still a manual mode though..
But if the setup is external gate for boost control, provided feedback is given back to the ecu to control boost, same amount of boost is achievable in each gear...but then again the only time gear dependent boost selection is needed is mostly on FWD drag cars other than of course the G Force car.. there were running like 1.2 on 1st, 1.5 on 2nd and 2.2 on 3rd and so on...

 

[MrNismo]

The HKS EVC Pro does provide adjustment according to rpm, throttle, and speed. But not gear specific. However it can be applied to minimize wheelspin during launching or lower gears.

Eevolution, my prostart is triggered by only a switch that is connected to the front panel of the V Pro, no external devices. By the optional selectable module, I suppose you mean the mixture control device that HKS has in it's catalogue?

 

[wira4]

Originally posted by Eevolution3@Sep 13 2004, 04:57 PM
If I may recall, yes, through an interface using a thumb switch specific boost can be selected through each gear.. still a manual mode though..
But if the setup is external gate for boost control, provided feedback is given back to the ecu to control boost, same amount of boost is achievable in each gear...but then again the only time gear dependent boost selection is needed is mostly on FWD drag cars other than of course the G Force car.. there were running like 1.2 on 1st, 1.5 on 2nd and 2.2 on 3rd and so on...

Interesting. There are only two maps on Haltech which I can switch in between with a switch. Wish I could have a third map so that I will have a different boost from third gear onwards. Perhaps the E11 model has more. For RM5000 on the e6x, you can have so many things to play with on one single ecu. I am not selling Haltech ecus, by the way.:D

 

[wira4]

Originally posted by MrNismo@Sep 13 2004, 05:13 PM
The HKS EVC Pro does provide adjustment according to rpm, throttle, and speed. But not gear specific. However it can be applied to minimize wheelspin during launching or lower gears.

Eevolution, my prostart is triggered by only a switch that is connected to the front panel of the V Pro, no external devices. By the optional selectable module, I suppose you mean the mixture control device that HKS has in it's catalogue?

Mr.Nismo,

If HKS has a module that deals with gear change via switches, I would be interested to know how to install a switch that can be turned on/off via gear changes instead of using one's thumb.

 

[Eevolution3]

Mr Nismo. there is a external device ( cubed shaped with a rotating dial with numbers on it , yes the mixture device). I know cause I had a V Pro tuned by Koyama from Jun. Was told by Koyama that each number on the dial corresponds to a certain launch rpm. Yes there is a switch to kick the Pro Start but also this module that allows selectable launch rpm..check with Lester la..maybe I'm wrong cause it says mixture but really is for the launch control
Hahaha..yea I know you're not a Haltech dealer.. I'm no HKS nor Autronic dealer as well but like yourself do own an ecu like that.. THe SM2 model of the Autronic supports different boost in different gear via a switch that is located in the shifter mechanism...I have never seen one but was told by my tuner in Australia that there;s one like that..will let u know as soon as I found out more.. :lol:

 

[calvin tong]

Originally posted by pendixs@Sep 9 2004, 03:59 PM
wira4,

that's not ma car..that's ma mech car..at the Dragbattle website it quoted that Wira as J (could be jump start)..dunno or the sensor could not take the time.. :D

wat ever happen that nite we all happy coz we're beaten by an Evo 6 (so damn fast this car)..we managed to gun down Red Sun Gtr..Singapore Evo 7..these car's are big boys even no one ever care about us that nite...hhihih..thats okay..

we've show our capability..see ya next round.. :D

i also went there that nite and support that wira vr4..... haha....
well done... hanky...

 

[wira4]

Originally posted by Eevolution3@Sep 13 2004, 06:44 PM
Mr Nismo. there is a external device ( cubed shaped with a rotating dial with numbers on it , yes the mixture device). I know cause I had a V Pro tuned by Koyama from Jun. Was told by Koyama that each number on the dial corresponds to a certain launch rpm. Yes there is a switch to kick the Pro Start but also this module that allows selectable launch rpm..check with Lester la..maybe I'm wrong cause it says mixture but really is for the launch control
Hahaha..yea I know you're not a Haltech dealer.. I'm no HKS nor Autronic dealer as well but like yourself do own an ecu like that.. THe SM2 model of the Autronic supports different boost in different gear via a switch that is located in the shifter mechanism...I have never seen one but was told by my tuner in Australia that there;s one like that..will let u know as soon as I found out more.. :lol:

Eevolution3,

If you can, please ask your Autronics tuner in Austrlia whether they sell any external 5 bar MAP sensor. Need it to go for 4 Bars of boost to take on Evo 6 Garage R. hehehe :P