The best plugs for B-series

shiroitenshi

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well, as per hattech-v asking..
I'm no plug tech, but I know the basics of choosing the right plug and deciding if I have to go with different numbers or not.

There is no recommended/best plug for the b-series.. it's highly dependent on your setup.

A bigger spark or whatever doesn't really affect combustion (remember those display things at n1 that compare two similar plugs?

A better plug with a bigger has better lifespan.. period. The spark only ignites the fuel air mixture, and that's it.. how the mixture explodes is what makes the power. Of course, a built engine that has a very aggresive fuel timing curve, which is why you notice that they run near stoich at idle and low revs, then drastically increase as the revs climb along with the ignition timing..

Since the so called performance plug can spark more, so it can last longer as it's materials get worn out, it can still generate adequate spark.

There's a lot of factors like plug gap, etc. etc. , but the simplest one I use is this... look at plug colour, and decide.. mine when running stock regulator is no 22 in the list (the whitish tip is very noticable, while bumping up the pressure on the regulator resulted in no 14, at best, with the colour being the stock light brown colour.
http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html

see color... too lean? add fuel on the regulator...
still no? use hotter/colder plugs 1 rating below the current one. Once you get them to run brownish colour, you've got the best plug for your setup. (give it a spin before checking, make sure you hit max rpm a few times, and accelerate smoothly, so you don't mess up the plug colour when you take it out.) If you want to check at a particular rpm point, just retain that point for a while, stop, and take out plugs to check. Usually lower rpms will show slightly lean or rich (depending on your tune) but that's not for deciding plugs, since that's not where they will see max temp in the combustion chamber.

For most NA applications.. just keep bumping up pressure until you get that brownish colour.. if not, you're probably using the wrong rating. Sometimes, at the max rpm point, 4-5bar might even run nicely, but idle will suck, so consider that your baseline at max as 4-5bar for regulator, Then, detune the fuel enrichment using any form of engine management you like. (with a wideband, so you don't detune too much and blow up your engine)..

Added:
It might seem obvious to me, but just to note that if your plugs are fouling at max rpm, lower the pressure until you can get that brown color.. For B-series hondas.. this is so common it's no longer a theory or not... 3/3.5 bar is best for non built engines!
 
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Usually 7.. even the most powderful (ROFL!) engine here goes 8 at most.

turbos are another matter.. there's one here using 10.. (O_o)

Checked a couple of sites... the heat range is related to the combustion temp increase (due to compression ratio and turbocharging) higher compression ratios usually require better fuel (I think you know that already) and colder plugs.

Seems to be true, as the car running 12.5 compression ratio (est, never calculated properly, since the piston says 12.5, so assuming other parameters are correct, yes it has 12.5 CR.

That one is using no. 8 plugs..

Other than that.. everyone else uses 7... except for that crazy turbo evo with no. 10 plugs. I think you guys know that car when it was in Links, when it was tuned by a Japanese fella along with some Skyline and others. And if you do, you'd probably know how much whp it makes. Monster!

If you're thinking why not run no. 8 straightaway, it's because at colder temps, the spark is so poor, you'd foul the plug.. A colder plug resists the buildup of heat at the tip, to prevent pre-ignition.

So.. what kind of compression ratio you're getting? I still think 7 is the usual setup, unless you've milled the head for compression, and it's in the high 12 CR range.
 
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(O_o).. you run hotter plugs?

What kind of plug color do you get with 5? I'd thought that with high rpms, you'd start getting pre-ignition.
 
good information...where u learn all this?hehhe
its a bless to have sumone like u here in zth.....

btw,i still cant figure out which one better for mine..
tried 7 then kaput after 3-4months...car for weekend use oni..
then tried 8,kaput oso after same period...any recommendation?

my cr is about 11 sumthing kot last time i checked..heheh
 
turbo or not? actually the CR is the guidance only..

There's static compression ratio (which is meaningless, once I found out what it's for)

And there's dynamic compression ratio, which is based on static compression ratio and intake valve closing (this one is in the realm of cam pulley tuning, which I've yet to get into, since I'm still stuck on stock cams at the moment.

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm going to do some compression test this weekend to see the results and then analyze them to see how they correlate to dynamic compression ratio and intake closing.

The dynamic is what matters for the compression ratio and what fuel to use.. as for now, I still haven't gotten the idea of how to calculate it and apply it.

As for the engine tuners.. they use plug color to gauge what heat range to use...
so use that link I've given you and see what kind of plug color you get. It should give you an idea why your plugs die off so quickly. I can't say for sure either.. how about posting some of your plug pics?

Turbos usually go for colder plugs, since the combustion chamber temps are higher due to the higher pressures they see in the cylinder. Ditto with high CRs, they also generate higher cyclinder pressures at combustion stroke. That's how the power is generated (higher cylinder pressures = more power per cc, at least until your cylinder sleeves fail, ROFL!)

As for learning all this... there's this mechanic friend who's really good with this stuff in KB.. Pengkalan Chepa (Behind shell) workshop, Wang Teng Guan.. I think some of the more prominent shops in KL know him.. I learn the theory, and then I check out the reality by asking him about different setups he has seen and tested... or if it's not completely satisfactory, run some checks on my setup.. if it checks out, then the theory is true. Sometimes I diy certain things, just to find out information.. with his help, of course..but experience counts in building engines for power... which is why I try as much as possible to research what I'm doing to my engine, and why it does so.

Just having fun learning and discovering what does what in the car modding hobby. So far, I've learnt quite a lot, to the extent of knowing how to do a rough tune with just a wideband and an open road for good idle and usable power.. so you can drive to a dyno in KL and do a proper tune.

Peak power still needs to be done on the dyno though.. much easier and safer to do it on a dyno... and ignition curves cannot be done until I fully understand cam duration and lift. and how it contributes to the dynamic compression ratio.. then study the stock settings and then consider what changes do what.

Seriously, I wonder how these KL tuners tune.. just to tune my own engine, I have to consider soo many factors. They just sit down in the car.. do a few dyno runs, and poof! instant power... They don't even ask about your engine setup...

but looking at some of the dyno charts, I go wtf? because some of the charts I've seen achieve peak power waay before the rev limit... while some achieve peak power at peak RPM..

considering the theory of the faster air flows, the volume makes it into the engine at peak rpm, then the max power should be at peak rpm... or at least near it.. some honda charts I've seen achieve at 6K, then gradually tapering off.. That's why I go.. ??????? Possible reasons could be the flow factor, but unless you're using some cap ayam extractor with flow issues.. I don't think this should be the case.

Looking at mat salleh dyno maps in mags.. I've always seen them generating peak at peak rpm.. The numbers means jack to me, as you can see in the dyno result thread I made.. it's the curve that matters. Notice that my setup tapers off at post 6K, but doesn't drop, just that the power increase slows down a lot.

Too bad dyno time = $$$$, or I could have learnt a lot more by just modifying fuel press, intake length and possibly cam timing (means I would have bought them then and there, if I could do all the above)
 
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hattech-v said:
how u check that compression? that cr can be cek ka? haha
i think u shud try heat 11 laaa...

mie, i mean 'checked' last time when i was building up my engine lar..
that time it was calculated using those burets n oil n what thingy..ask eric he know la..i just know the figure oni...biasa la mie..kekek
 
bornzreign said:
mie, i mean 'checked' last time when i was building up my engine lar..
that time it was calculated using those burets n oil n what thingy..ask eric he know la..i just know the figure oni...biasa la mie..kekek

Easily done.. yeah.. I know the formula by heart already.. will post later once I do the diagram for it.

BTW, what's the combustion chamber volume & piston dome + valve reliefs volume in cc for a stock B16A head? I'm lacking that information, and I didn't think about doing it when doing my conversion.

Interestingly, I thought first thought that dome cc doesn't matter because it's a constant.. but it does, since it makes the combustion chamber smaller.
 
i'm oso wondering wether the volume info that available on the net is true or not... hehe
maybe u shud email honda japan for the spec.
 
like they'll care about a customer using their 14 year old car that's already discontinued.. :P
 

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