Change Springs or Absorber?

[Veloc]

Dear Sifus,

I want to ask how often do people change springs? Are they required to be changed at all?

I ask this because now I need to change absorber. The reason I change absorber is because my current one is old already and cannot provide sufficient dampening. Plus, the right rear side is already lowered and the wheel is almost touching the body. The absorber that part is very soft and whenever I carry rear passenger, the wheel always brushed against the body on that side. Damn sakit!!! So the mechanic asked me to change absorber. Why didn't he asked me to change springs?

Thank you...

 

[g4i8y0t]

Springs are much more durable than shock absorbers, especially OEM springs. Unless u always carry heavy loads like 200kg cement or rice bags in the boot everyday, they will easily last 10-15 years. After that, they tend to sag a bit.

I believe your car is lowered on the rear right side because of the absorbers. Actually, absorbers do suppport the weight of the car even when stationary. When u buy a new shock absorber, u can't fully compress it because of the compressed gas inside it will push back the piston.

On some cases, bad bushing can also cause some part of the car to look 'senget'. Recently, I wonder why my car is lowered on the driver side even though I already changed all 4 absorbers. It turned out my front lower arm big bush already worn out. I changed the bush, problem solved.

 

[bera]

just want to add a bit...make sure you match the damper with the right set springs and vice versa...for longevity and reliability sake...let just say if using a lowered springs on standard dampers...the dampers will always in compressed mode when bearing the weight of the car...this will put more stress in the damper compared to standard spring height...and as always...the higher stress the less reliable/longevity it get...

a bad match will also mess up your car handling characteristic...

if can afford...go for adjustable coilover...

 

[Veloc]

just want to add a bit...make sure you match the damper with the right set springs and vice versa...for longevity and reliability sake...let just say if using a lowered springs on standard dampers...the dampers will always in compressed mode when bearing the weight of the car...this will put more stress in the damper compared to standard spring height...and as always...the higher stress the less reliable/longevity it get...

a bad match will also mess up your car handling characteristic...

if can afford...go for adjustable coilover...

Oh I see... SO those people simply chop springs actually makes it bad for the abs also la right?

 

[bera]

yeah...can simply put it that way...it also mess with your damper bound and rebound...

 

[DanzEterna]

bro,
your current absorbers critical meh? y not save up abit more & go for adjsutables...?
long time investment ma hehe.....

 

[Veloc]

bro,
your current absorbers critical meh? y not save up abit more & go for adjsutables...?
long time investment ma hehe.....

Can't lerr... adjustables so expensive.. Those I heard is around 1500 - 1800 per set. How much is it in KL? If a little bit more expensive over the stock I don't mind. But here in kk, I don't find cheap brand adjustables for AE. For proton and newer toyota i.e vios, camry, altis got. They are selling in accessories shop for around 200 - 300 for 2 piece. AE don't have lerr... Only got those like GAB, Tein... Ouch! OEMs are only 125 per piece...

And yeah it is quite critical. If got passenger that side, just a small bump or cornering, the tyre will brush the body... sakit la...

Danz, if you happen to see any cheaper adjustables in KL, no need super brand, just let me know la... Then I tahan a bit and save up first.

 

[DanzEterna]

ok bro,
wats your car model ? ae101 or 111?

---------- Post added at 12:19 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------

how much your budget anyways?

 

[Veloc]

ok bro,
wats your car model ? ae101 or 111?

---------- Post added at 12:19 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:18 PM ----------

how much your budget anyways?

AE111 bro... Budget... Around 300 per pair? This price can get the cheapo brand adjustable. The thing is don't have for my car model...

 

[DanzEterna]

bro,
ive checked out on mudah, not many adjustables available...only got gab..i smsed the fella but so far no reply kot...but price agak2 bout rm1.5k++...

any here that interest u?
Car Accessories & Parts for sale in Malaysia: seg absorbers - Mudah.my

 

[Veloc]

Thanks bro...

Don't trouble yourself la... Those mudah one I see already... That's why I said. No cheap ones for this model... Guess I'll be going for the OEM one la... 1.5k over budget already... gf will complain and give me a hell time... I am starting to decrease spending on car now... haha... If not satisfied, next time when got more savings only change again la... haha...

 

[DanzEterna]

no prob bro..
just wanna help u...anyways i agree, for the time being go for OEM ones 1st, maybe if got extra budget, go for sport springs while u at it......at least u save on workmanship there....

aiya, gf onli ma.....last time my gf(now wife) dun dare to complaint bout how much i spend on my previous ride...now when become wife edi, always bising, until tell me to sell my car & get a std gaban one.....

 

[bera]

ermm...better save up bro and go for adjustable coilover...it definitely more worth it on a long run...it took me over 2 years saving before i can afford one...but i think it worth even sen i spent on it...even my wife approved them...she said my car now more smooth...

most of them can service some more...so as long as not broken it maybe out survive the car itself...

oem abs for ae111 is what brand eh...??just take a look at my old one...to my surprise it is kayaba...

 

[Veloc]

ermm...better save up bro and go for adjustable coilover...it definitely more worth it on a long run...it took me over 2 years saving before i can afford one...but i think it worth even sen i spent on it...even my wife approved them...she said my car now more smooth...

most of them can service some more...so as long as not broken it maybe out survive the car itself...

oem abs for ae111 is what brand eh...??just take a look at my old one...to my surprise it is kayaba...

You use AE111 too? If kayaba i'm not surprised. Because most toyotas use kayaba. They have some sort of partnership between them. But here, kayaba not available for the moment don't know why. The shop quoted me Monroe (RM 200/piece) and another shop quoted me APM (RM 125/piece). Another shop quoted me APM (RM 138/piece). Most prob I be going for APM as I heard that the quality is not bad. About KYB, even if got, I don't think I wana use it again. Got bad experience with local made KYB when using my dad's old car (trooper). It age and kong fast. Not sure if it is the brand of specifically for that car model because that model rely on abs and torsion beam only. No coils or leafs.

And can you please advice more what do you mean by serviceable coilovers? How to service? Thank you.

 

[bera]

no la bro...my ride is ae 101...to my knowledge...we share the same absorber...i mean toyota se...seg 101...and seg 111...all are the same...so can be easily interchange between these model...plug and play if i'm not mistaken...

the term serviceable is you can actually pull apart the damper part (nothing much to do with the spring though...unless you want to change the spring rate)if anything should happen to it (leaking for example)...replace the wear and tear part, oil/gas in the damper...assemble it back and you are good to go again...so no need to change the damper anymore (unless they are badly damaged)...at a reasonable price too...

it have to be done at specialize shop...not DIY... :P

i wouldn't recommend this route...but if you wanna save budget...you can try the chop shop absorber from levin/trueno package...i think its slightly better than the oem corolla we get over here...maybe cheaper also...but being a used item...there maybe some issues...maybe other sifu can enlighten us on this...

 

[Veloc]

no la bro...my ride is ae 101...to my knowledge...we share the same absorber...i mean toyota se...seg 101...and seg 111...all are the same...so can be easily interchange between these model...plug and play if i'm not mistaken...

the term serviceable is you can actually pull apart the damper part (nothing much to do with the spring though...unless you want to change the spring rate)if anything should happen to it (leaking for example)...replace the wear and tear part, oil/gas in the damper...assemble it back and you are good to go again...so no need to change the damper anymore (unless they are badly damaged)...at a reasonable price too...

it have to be done at specialize shop...not DIY... :P

i wouldn't recommend this route...but if you wanna save budget...you can try the chop shop absorber from levin/trueno package...i think its slightly better than the oem corolla we get over here...maybe cheaper also...but being a used item...there maybe some issues...maybe other sifu can enlighten us on this...

Levin and trueno here don't have. I asked for any adjustable coilovers from the chop shop they also say don't have. Don't know don't have or they don't want to sell. Only got standard JDM corolla ones. RM 80 per piece (spring and absorber together). I don't dare to use because I don't know how many years it has been used. Risky... Later if I buy and use for 2 months and the same thing happens farked up man.... On top of that, it can be that they chop up local corolla and sell the parts. If they want to cheat I also don't know... So I was thinking of going for the brand new OEMs from APM.

What do you think? Have you any experience with chop shop items? Because abs are things that get used up. So I don't dare use. Other things like body panels, engine parts, I'm fine with it.

What do you think?

 

[dennisdreams]

absorber's doesn't actually support weight. You give it enough time, the weight you put on it will eventually press the absorber's shaft back into it's body. But what the nitrogen gas in the gas does is, assist the spring in holding up some weight, (a few kg. i tested with a set of APM wira 1.5 springs and abs gas and without gas, gas type took 6kg more to press the spring to the same hight as non gas filled set)~

And depended to the spring's material and way they were produced. It may last as long as 20~30 years and as short as 3~5 years. As i had seen a 1976 toyota crown royal's spring still holding strong. As some citra customer coming in with faulty spring just 3 years (>_<)

 

[Veloc]

Got a really unpleasant experience today....

Remember I said my car's rear right tyre will hit the arch/body while hard cornering or carrying passenger? Fine. Today I changed APM performax. After I changed it, the mech told me still same. One side lower. It is not the springs either. They took out the springs and I also seen it. Both are slightly cut but both are at the same length. Waste my $$ change abs. Last time they told me it is abs.

Then he told me looks like the driver's side (front right) suspension is slightly lower than the front left. So it will affect the back suspension and pull it down as well. He said try to change the front abs first. See is it absorber kong or not. I want to ask, is there such thing? If the driver's side suspension lower, will it drag the rear right suspension to be lower as well?

After that he said again. If you changed front abs and still like that, then maybe it is the body bengkok already. Farked man. I am really worried. Damn worried. He said if body bengkok, the fastest, easiest and cheapest way people use to balance it back is just add a rubber near the abs mounting to increase the height. But it doesn't sound nice to me. Anybody done this before?
Here no chassis realign machine. And even if got, I no budget to do it...

After that, he told me again "why buy performax"? We got a lot customers buy performax they complain it hangkang fast. I feel really farked. Spend so much in a day and cannot solve the problem. Not just that, I don't even know the problem now. And people told me the abs I buy is not good!

So I want to ask....
1. What could be the problem that my rear right is lower than my rear left?
2. Is it true that if the front right suspension is lower (for whatever reason, maybe abs not good), it will cause the rear right to go down as well?
3. If body/frame bengkok, how much to fix? Will adding the rubber at the suspension mounting cause any harm?
4. Is APM Performax really that sucks?

Thank you...

---------- Post added at 07:10 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------

About the driver side suspension being lower, I checked myself. I don't feel it lower. Only slightly.

Front left - 3 fingers
Front right - 3 fingers (slightly tighter only)
Rear left - 3 and a half finger
Rear right - 2 and a half finger (almost 2 finger only)

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

check all the bushing in lower arm also....

i think it was the spring in the first place....

seg cheap adjustable didn't have ar??i think u can go thru mudah.my back and ask a few seller properly....maybe they didn't really catch your model but got "similiar" model.....

 

[dennisdreams]

[/COLOR]About the driver side suspension being lower, I checked myself. I don't feel it lower. Only slightly.

Front left - 3 fingers
Front right - 3 fingers (slightly tighter only)
Rear left - 3 and a half finger
Rear right - 2 and a half finger (almost 2 finger only)

from that i seen (on words) your rear right was definitely will cause your front right to be lower. For it's more than the 3mm margin which the chassis can 'hide' the ride hight difference. You still using original spring at the back? for my experience, abs won't effect right hight as long as it's the same brand/models as abs pressure won't really affect ride high as well.

So it's down to spring and chassis. Spring as the major supporter of your car (it supported your car's weight ^^) and for some reason, springs do had it's life span due to type of material they were used to made and way of manufactured (cold forge/cold roll, hot roll etc~) and treatment accepted later. As many years of experience in suspension tuning, i can make a conclusion which most car's rear spring will give way in 7~10 years (sub 2000 models) and 15~20 for front.
As newer car (might been due to cutting cost) 3~5 years -rear, 10-(dunno now only 11 years) for car models made after y2K~

i recon you try to get a new set of springs and put it on to see if your car still ridding on one side~

hope this help ;) cheerio~