When there is a problem , will Malaysian been able to discuss it openly?

[anthenna]

Dun worry... wait all investors run away... errr many people faces unemployment... errr theft break, robbery... Yea! That time then G will change/runaway/whatsoever. Then we have a betta tomorrow. Yes. Good.

 

[XTEC]

here are high income gomen story

Malaysian Mirror - Into a 'high-income government'

 

[links]

Shitty? my friend just complained to me semi-detached house still asking for rm1m in puchong and even 1.5m in KL area???? I did not look at malaysia property price for long but is it true? Never know those houses can sell for such a good price nowadays. Econ in msia must be 'really good' as other developed countries.


talking back to the religious think, I have came across a colleague in US with "allah" in his name....is it legal for muslim to use it in their name? I knew one of the Dean in Inti college was having "jesus" in his name last time (wonder he still in inti or not)

 

[JINEIL2EN]

Shitty? my friend just complained to me semi-detached house still asking for rm1m in puchong and even 1.5m in KL area???? I did not look at malaysia property price for long but is it true? Never know those houses can sell for such a good price nowadays. Econ in msia must be 'really good' as other developed countries.


talking back to the religious think, I have came across a colleague in US with "allah" in his name....is it legal for muslim to use it in their name? I knew one of the Dean in Inti college was having "jesus" in his name last time (wonder he still in inti or not)

just wondering, will Malaysia Government sue other countries who using 'Allah' in the language or their newspaper onot...
since Malaysia so special...

 

[TH8]

Would very much like to comment but later visit Kamunting so better not saying anything!

 

[csl]

Peoples are shouting poor because of no money after buy their car, came out from wheel/tire shops, exhaust shops and accessories shops. but no money also no problem, car still send to car wash. Some people also shouting no money. Maybe riding kapchai and wear broken t. But, when talk about house renovation, Rm30k, 50k, or even 100k, can dump the money just like that. Not to forget, when shouting no money, when the phone rings, take out from pocket, it is a iphone or else multifunction phone which is expensive.

Kaninia, real poor man will not complain so much. They will in stead use the time for earning money. When you are using high end tires and wheels, talk what no money? When you can have good meal outside the street or in shopping mall everyday, talk what no money?

Money is not fell from the sky. What you work, what you paid. After you have it, if don't save them up, they will be used away.

Regardless in what country, there are rich people and poor people. Why other people can be rich? you can only see people rich in outlook. But when people work the sht out of their pants, you never see or even think about it.

KL house price is expensive. Why? Because many students from everywhere, after form 5 or form 6, 1st target is to study in KL. After finish study, stay and work in KL. House demand high, sure price high. But in the other hand, job market is totally the other way round. When too many demand, the related job salary will become lower. If cannot compete with other people, the only choice is to move to other states or city or even kampung else suffer. Shout, cry also no use. This is the nature of all cities. Who fits, who stays. Even if the gov subsidize, it also won't last long. 100% no discrimination. No one can control. If you can't see this, means that you can either continue to cry like a baby or use your brain and physical strength more in order to learn it from a hard way.

---------- Post added at 10:48 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:24 AM ----------

just wondering, will Malaysia Government sue other countries who using 'Allah' in the language or their newspaper onot...
since Malaysia so special...

No.

The minister already mentioned, cannot use in Malaysia because there are still many people can get too sensitive in this issues. What I understand was, the gov is worrying if this case made big, it will effect the economy. When effect the economy, it will got blamed. But, when it got blame or even voted down, also not as susah as those people who lost their job or come out school cannot find jobs due to the economy no good. It is not all about religion. You can choose to ignore this fact by throwing the responsibility to police or gov. But ask yourselves, how and what you gonna do if suka-suka got people report bomb, got people splash petrol, got people do something funny in random place with random ways? Who is the one who got hit in the 1st wave and who suffer in long term?

And, when you are believing this allah case is a religion or race related case, hope you also aware that it may be one of the thermometer poked by the gov, to evaluate the level and plan for the next move, either economy planning or election. But this is not that important. The most important thing is that, when reading these few pages in this thread, do we spotted our weakness? Do we learned?

 

[XTEC]

just wondering, will Malaysia Government sue other countries who using 'Allah' in the language or their newspaper onot...
since Malaysia so special...

JIN possible can happen ler, too many NYANYUK ppl down there.

 

[mizunori77]

CSL, more people will read and try to understand you if you could at least separate your post into a few paragraphs. no one is interested in a wall of words.

i'll try to stay on topic based on all the feedbacks here. imho, i would like to believe malaysians are always ready for discussions. however, there are a few issues that comes to mind.

1. what type of mentality do we approach the discussion? do we approach 'trying to tell our story' or approach to understand the other party?

about the 'Allah' issue, the judge has already made available the reasons in a 57 page written judgement why 'Allah' can be used. click http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/index.php/malaysia/49845-four-reasons-for-controversial-allah-ruling to read more. the license to publish is issued annually by the home ministry. last year, the home ministry disallowed the use of the word for whatever reasons. the Herald appealed and this was the judgement that was handed out.

as we are not discussing why the ministry decided to ban the word, let's discuss on the reactions of the parties involved. is it necessary to resort to violence by firebombing a place of worship over the use of a word? even if the word is wrongly used (which it is not as it is already proven), what gives a person or a group of people the right to be so violent? this group of people not only showed contempt to the court ruling, they also smeared the name of their own God by committing a sin (unless they are saying that it is alright to resort to violence).

did the group of people understand the christian's viewpoint? did the group of people realize that the word has already been used for many many years? did we, who are discussing this issue realize this was a fact? did you, as a reader/bystander view this thinking that those group of arsonists are religious extremists? did you, for a moment label their religion as an extreme religion?

in this country, where everything is 'boleh', these attacks may be isolated cases or maybe be planned beforehand. what those have done DOESN'T reflect on the majority. i have many friends who are muslims who also condemn violence. do you know how they felt when they see some people 'representing' them and do such crazy things?

so, once again, with what mentality do you approach a discussion?

2. how open are we to whatever the other party may say?

there's a saying that a cup that is full cannot be refilled as it will overflow. if we are not ready to listen to what others say, then we are just lying to ourselves when we say we are open for discussion.

we're all humans so we have our ego, pride, emotions, beliefs, biases, etc. however, we also have a brain that is capable of logical thinking. if we are not willing to use our logical thinking in this day and age, how different are we from savages?

3. freedom of speech and freedom after speech are 2 different things. we can speak up but like others have mentioned, do we still have our freedom AFTER we speak? until we have both, i guess we can only wait to go to the ballot box to decide things for ourselves.

---------- Post added at 01:55 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 01:34 PM ----------

The minister already mentioned, cannot use in Malaysia because there are still many people can get too sensitive in this issues.

this is the problem. many ministers say many things. however, none of them can provide any concrete evidence or facts to support what they say. people get too sensitive about it? do you see 60% of 22million people go burn churches?

this is like how we often laugh at the film censorship board over the 18SG, SX and U ratings. it doesn't mean that when they cut away those kissing scenes, malaysians won't kiss. having such a mentality will only make the general public doubt their credibility and professionalism.

as of now, the credibility of the ministers are low and possibly even zero. as a minister, if you don't even bother to show credibility by facts and keep using feelings or other means of measure, then they are not fit to be a minister.

What I understand was, the gov is worrying if this case made big, it will effect the economy. When effect the economy, it will got blamed. But, when it got blame or even voted down, also not as susah as those people who lost their job or come out school cannot find jobs due to the economy no good.

worrying that one word will affect an entire economy to the point of having a ministry and multiple NGOs act and react in such a way? isn't that like using a using a meat cleaver to cut vege?

there are many reasons why our economy is not in good shape. they should fix those first instead of worrying about one word will turn millions of malaysians into barbarians and start vandalizing buildings and hurting people.

It is not all about religion. You can choose to ignore this fact by throwing the responsibility to police or gov. But ask yourselves, how and what you gonna do if suka-suka got people report bomb, got people splash petrol, got people do something funny in random place with random ways? Who is the one who got hit in the 1st wave and who suffer in long term?

the govt is making the issue a religious issue even though it is not. you should tell this to the govt.

And, when you are believing this allah case is a religion or race related case, hope you also aware that it may be one of the thermometer poked by the gov, to evaluate the level and plan for the next move, either economy planning or election. But this is not that important. The most important thing is that, when reading these few pages in this thread, do we spotted our weakness? Do we learned?

why would the govt 'poke' a religious thermometer that has got nothing to do with the economy? if they wish to play the race card again for the next election, that is up to them. it is unfair for them to withdraw the license or ban a word just for political reasons. having said that, if what you say is true, then the public will see it that the ruling govt is willing to resort to such things just to stay in power while watching our economy slip further down.

 

[anthenna]

I cant believe someone actaully read what CSL typed...
Thumbs up!

 

[zac]

Bro Mizunori, do you need some eyemo?? i can send it to you F.O.C!!!

 

[csl]

A lot of things that you can choose to believe or try to find excuses to ignore or even suddenly got the disease of temporally lost of memory. But regardless how, end of the day, you still live within the fact. Many people think that they are modern people, they are smart people. But they just smart and modern within their living area. Go out and see the world, then only know how tiny are them.

On every single issues that related to the gov, peoples' 1st reaction will be the gov fault. Even give that RM6xx subsidies based on car cc also got condemn. This is not about right or wrong. This is about people just simply throw the anger to the gov as they cannot get what they want while they are not deserved it. Example, a person who earn Rm2xxx a month, buy an ori apple iphone. When money not enough, use credit card. After that, use more credit card to buy accessories and software for the phone. When financial got problem, whom to blame? Commonly the gov got blame because cannot make them to achieve their dreams in a short time of period. What big picture, what future is not as important as present enjoyment. Ask somebody don't go clubbing or mod their car or use branded items, maybe is easier to ask them go suicide.

It is not a problem to shoot the gov. But must make sense and have long term effect analysis support. What people always blaming, is just based on their present short term benefit, if I keep quite, someone keep quite, you may able to win on today. But some innocent fellows follow you, they will loss their tomorrow. I love ZTH. And I must be a responsible ZTHian to defend ZTH before it lost it creditability and become a nonsense forum that full of sht. You may not understand for time being. But you will know when you get older someday.

---------- Post added at 02:42 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:24 PM ----------

Add.

Like this allah case. Personally, I agree to let the religion newspaper to use it. Nothing is wrong based on the history and other countries' practices. But at this time this moment, maybe is not a good time for it. It may create opportunity for some parties (including foreign parties) to use it as a political chips to deal with the gov. Our own country's organizations no need to say la, it is so obvious that some do use a lot of way to stop NJ's plan for defending their fast money source. When I think back, how come a religion father + newspaper director behave so extreme, ngei ngei lai, no tolerance at all. Die also wanna use the allah word. I can think of something but has no prove yet to support. You go and think yourselves la.

Always, I like to tell people not to hear only 1 side of story. But many of you still so subjective. When you blindly bash, or selectively compare, you are actually misleading other people.

 

[SataniC]

First cow, then riot, then fight for using a word and now babi head....wtf

 

[csl]

some cases will be slowly disappear away and forgotten by the people :wavey:

 

[anthenna]

Finally , short and simple and HIT ON THE SPOT. Thx CSL...

 

[csl]

Niabeh, I always regret my writing was too short during my spm time

 

[anthenna]

Quality not quantity lorh. U write crap for 1000 words oso useless wad.

 

[mizunori77]

A lot of things that you can choose to believe or try to find excuses to ignore or even suddenly got the disease of temporally lost of memory. But regardless how, end of the day, you still live within the fact. Many people think that they are modern people, they are smart people. But they just smart and modern within their living area. Go out and see the world, then only know how tiny are them.

i absolutely agree with you. its a fact that most people will always see things their way FIRST before even thinking of understanding another person's point of view.

exposure is also a good thing but at the end, it is up to the individual to practice what he/she has learned. maintaining status quo even though he/she has learned much more doesn't automatically make a person BIG.

On every single issues that related to the gov, peoples' 1st reaction will be the gov fault. Even give that RM6xx subsidies based on car cc also got condemn. This is not about right or wrong. This is about people just simply throw the anger to the gov as they cannot get what they want while they are not deserved it. Example, a person who earn Rm2xxx a month, buy an ori apple iphone. When money not enough, use credit card. After that, use more credit card to buy accessories and software for the phone. When financial got problem, whom to blame? Commonly the gov got blame because cannot make them to achieve their dreams in a short time of period. What big picture, what future is not as important as present enjoyment. Ask somebody don't go clubbing or mod their car or use branded items, maybe is easier to ask them go suicide.

i think u have mixed up something here. there are things that we need and there are things that we want. an iphone is something that we want and not need. if a person chooses to pamper him/herself, then they are to be blamed BUT if our basic needs are not met, why cant we complain?

in this case, the need for more stable telecommunications such as mobile and broadband has been the complains for many years. how many years has it been since we were overtaken by our neighbours singapore and thailand in the telco industry? my fren in SG is paying less than RM 80 for a 4MB line as compared to streamyx RM 200++ for a 4MB line. why this extreme difference in pricing?

about the petrol subsidies, true. what you see is that the govt is giving out cash to car owners. however, it took the govt 4 hours to increase fuel prices when global oil prices increased BUT it takes them 4 weeks to REVIEW the prices even when the global oil price drops? on top of that, the proportion of the reduction is much much lesser than the global price drop. does this make any sense to you? what is the logic behind maintaining high prices for oil locally when global prices have dropped? the way i see it, its about profit and not PEOPLE FIRST. secondly, do you think that the minute the govt 'buy oil', they are delivered immediately? there are many processes involved to refine the oil and the oil that we are using now was probably 'bought' months ago. when global oil prices increased, DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO YOU THAT EX-STOCK PRICE INCREASE TO REFLECT CURRENT PRICES? the way i see it, its also to make a profit rather than to help the people. so, can we complain now?

It is not a problem to shoot the gov. But must make sense and have long term effect analysis support. What people always blaming, is just based on their present short term benefit, if I keep quite, someone keep quite, you may able to win on today. But some innocent fellows follow you, they will loss their tomorrow. I love ZTH. And I must be a responsible ZTHian to defend ZTH before it lost it creditability and become a nonsense forum that full of sht. You may not understand for time being. But you will know when you get older someday.

there are many types of people who visits ZTH. some may post with facts, some may not. ZTH mods can only moderate the posts according to the R&R. it is not your job nor other members to 'defend' ZTH to make sure the forum doesn't lose its credibilty and become a forum that is full of shit. what you are suggesting is a reactive method.

the correct method is to make sure that we ourselves post with real facts and not twisted ones. then it will make the jobs of the mods easier.

you previously wrote that the people shouldn't complain and just continue to work hard and then they will see the fruits of their labour. this is good advice but isn't really practical in reality. why? because every year, i still see many many students who scored many As and yet failed to get a place in a local university or even a scholarship. you can't stay that they never worked hard. you can't also say that because its luck that they cant get in because in reality, there IS a quota system when it comes to admission into a local uni. even though their parents also work hard and pay taxes, their children can't get a place in the unis. does this make sense to you? can people complain now? if this happened to you, will you still think that this is fair and your children should just give up their rights to enter a local uni and just go 'work hard' in a private college?

what do you say about this fact? :wavey:

 

[JINEIL2EN]

First cow, then riot, then fight for using a word and now babi head....wtf

i bet those "Pig Head" is come from the biggest political party's pig head...

 

[FVel]

Fvel.

Thank you bro for taking the time to type all of that....hope it opens some eyes.

....

Won't open all of them, I can assure you. Doesn't bother me at all if ppl disagree with me. If they want to debate the issues with me, then a debate is what they get.

But whatever lar, people believe what they want to believe. It is their right.

Past a certain point, shouting your viewpoint louder is a waste of energy.

That's the thing with current issues. There are always two camps. If you think about it, discussing current issues in depth is some ways a pointless exercise. Because you know some guy on the other camp will definitely tell you that you are wrong.

But it's interesting all the same because you get to see how other people think (or don't think) and it keeps you sharp and articulate.

---------- Post added at 08:45 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:58 PM ----------

CSL,

You know, Mizunori is right. Your posts are hard to read. "Wall of words" is the description he used. In as much as you advocate understanding and appreciation between races and religions, you do your advocacy no favours by not being able to communicate clearly.

Wasn't there a really good quote from Peter O'Toole from the movie 'The Last Emperor'---> "You should say what you mean,or you will never mean what you say."

Like this quote :-

Sometimes, logically wrong doesn't mean practically must not right. We need to combine both and make up a permanent solution.

What's all that mean in English ? Can you provide a real world example of a "combination" that has given form to "permanent solution".

Because if ppl here cannot relate to what you are trying to say, then they don't understand what you are trying to tell them.

And that pictorial cartoon you posted for me a few posts earlier. It's chic and cute, but your point is .....??? As far as I know, only kindergarten kids draw cartoons to express their feelings.

I can see the gap between young people and senior citizens is quite big. I did what I can do so far, although sometimes felt quite tiring.

What do mean by 'senior' ? Above 55 ? Well, I'm 40. Means I'm not so young. My boss is above 70. I have no trouble understanding him because he talks clearly. Sad to say, I have trouble understanding you. Could be that you're so much smarter than me. I don't know.

Those politicians do have skills to convince us but we must think of the consequences before took over by the chemical element that released by our body which will effect our emotion and lead us to make the wrong decision.

"before took over by chemical element that released by our body which will affect our emotion"

Huh ?? apa chemical ni ?....ohhhh....you mean 'adrenaline'. Say so lar ! No need to cakap in pantun lar. We all here very simple folk. Hard to understand woi.

"Those politicians do have skills to convince us "

Which politicians ? The same ones from BN ? When Khir Toyo tells you the money that Balkis took away does not belong to the State of Selangor, do you believe him ? When Azalina Othman tells you her Sport Ministry spent money to build a non-existent sporting complex in England, do you believe her ?

If vote for the party, and the party is full of shitty people, then we are having a shitty country. If vote for good people, the party that contains more good people will win and we will have a better tomorrow, although not guaranty perfect.This is the power of voting. Not like some stupid people from a party did some wrong thing and we urge everyone to vote the party down for revenge. It only make us looks stupid, don't even know how to judge heavy or light.

Really, really don't understand what you are trying to say here.

What happens if that one good person you voted happens to belong to a party. So by voting that person, aren't you also casting a vote for his party ?

There is NO pragmatic way to vote for a candidate and at the same completely separate his affiliations with a political party. Practically every candidate in this county belongs to one major political party or another. There very, very few independent candidates in this country to choose from. It almost goes without saying a candidate flying a party flag will usually fly their policies as well.

What you are advocating is for every individual constituent to use their rights to vote for a candidate irrespective of party affiliations as long as the candidate is honest and capable.

That will only work if you can truely separate a candidacy from party affiliations. Unfortunately, as I already explained, that is not possible and it's not as simple as having a bowl of jelly beans and just picking off the green ones.

Forum is not a place to release the tension but to share and educate our next generation or sort of hand over note for the future leaders.

I tell you honestly.......you'll be heck of a lot more effective as an educator and teacher if you just stop talking in pantun. I cannot understand 99% of the riddles you are saying. Here are some quotable quotes from you :-

------------------------------------------------
A lot of things that you can choose to believe or try to find excuses to ignore or even suddenly got the disease of temporally lost of memory.

What big picture, what future is not as important as present enjoyment. Ask somebody don't go clubbing or mod their car or use branded items, maybe is easier to ask them go suicide.

How many and how long can the gov save our ass? Boat will be straighten when arrive the port?

The meaning had been replaced by iphone, blackberry, LV, BMW, high end living apartment and ten thousands more things including complete tomei engine that nicely wrapped with the sugar skin

What we need is time to let everything become flawlessly joined and not simply create something fragile

there are some case that cannot be argued like some rocket wakil rakyat simply been kept for a week or so.

Sometimes, logically wrong doesn't mean practically must not right. We need to combine both and make up a permanent solution

Basically, to be open discuss or not, it is like a gamble. Either you hold your Rm100 tight tight or go and buy big-small and have a chance to make your money become RM150.
--------------------------------------------


You sound like a fortune cookie. Hope you don't talk like that in real life.

Fortune cookie says 'He who thinks too much, is thinking too much'

 

[zac]

hahhaa... i ASSUME i'm not educated well so i couldn't understand his point, so it's true that his points are hard to be viewed... Guranteed he is a chinese cos he use lots of cantonese foul words and idiom...