Boxer engine.. that good?
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So it leaks oil..
but dry oil settles it..
So it's expensive to manufacture..
but subaru aint really a low volume manufacturer like ferrari and co. so how come they can afford to do it..?
please clarify..
im really curious.. it sounds so good in paper.. why isnt it being used widely..
thank you all in advance..
but dry oil settles it..
So it's expensive to manufacture..
but subaru aint really a low volume manufacturer like ferrari and co. so how come they can afford to do it..?
please clarify..
im really curious.. it sounds so good in paper.. why isnt it being used widely..
thank you all in advance..
if not mistaken, ferrari have 1 model that is a boxer engine too. was it the F512 or something.
the boxer rumble sure sounds good but quite rightly said, a stock impreza won't sound like that. modified exhaust will only make such sound. saying this, it doesn't mean the rumbling sound is 100% produced by exhaust. its the engine but the exhaust amplifies it.
the boxer rumble sure sounds good but quite rightly said, a stock impreza won't sound like that. modified exhaust will only make such sound. saying this, it doesn't mean the rumbling sound is 100% produced by exhaust. its the engine but the exhaust amplifies it.
get a subaru n test d boxer sound la....but how nice d bubble sound is depend on d type of ekzos using.....
Yeah, The F512 Testarossa. One heck of a design, flat-12 engine. I told myself someday Im going to own one the moment I saw it. :D The only other Ferrari that comes close to being this beutiful is IMO the 348. In my opinion la.
I have read of some weird exhaust manifold design for Inline-4 engines causing it to sound like a boxer on a website. Had pictures also. Some weird cyllinders 1-2 , 3-4 combination or something at the first joint as opposed to conventional 1-4 , 2-3. The guy who made it said the car lost alot of power though...
I have read of some weird exhaust manifold design for Inline-4 engines causing it to sound like a boxer on a website. Had pictures also. Some weird cyllinders 1-2 , 3-4 combination or something at the first joint as opposed to conventional 1-4 , 2-3. The guy who made it said the car lost alot of power though...
just curious, if wanna take out the spark plug for cleaning, how hard is it? take it out from the top or jack the car up and climb under the car to get it? :D
rollakid said:
its located every edge of the head... its not that difficult...
Sabelt must be a scooby rider.. :D
From what i know off, the boxer engine benefit from its flat cylinder config that less power is loss due to the force of gravity acting on the piston, compared to a straight in line or a V engine. However, it will suffer more wear and tear compared to the other set up.
correct me if i'm wrong.
From what i know off, the boxer engine benefit from its flat cylinder config that less power is loss due to the force of gravity acting on the piston, compared to a straight in line or a V engine. However, it will suffer more wear and tear compared to the other set up.
correct me if i'm wrong.
EG8 said:
eh where got sound like dat wan? that one engine mati la hahaha:p
boxer sound is like..
du du du du du du.... when slowly moving
and when accelerate.. druuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.. kepishhhhhhhh
oooohhhhhhh la la
tajulsans said:
not really... because most of the later version for subaru runs on open and semi closed deck to let the oil run breath smoother... the con is this two particular blocks cant really push maxmum boost very long...
want hi boost holds longer? go for closed deck, but it shorten the engine lifespan
newage impreza now using equal length for hi end torque improvement..so no more boxer sound.. the current model sound is just like in between 4cylinder and V6 during hi rev...
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horizontal opposed @ flat @ boxer engines were unique features of Volkswagen Beetle, Porsche 911, Subarus and Alfa Romeos.
The main advantage is low center of gravity thus improving handling and horizontal opposed cylinders have better dynamics compare to any other design. Maybe in large capacity but Alfa Romeo tried in smaller capacity (1.5, 1.6 and 1.7) but resulted shaky and vibrating engine especially if its factory set vacuum tune has been tempered.
This was no doubt as when Fiat took over Alfa, they slowly put the Boxer engine to history. Then started the use of in-line engines of similar block to Fiat but different head design which has unique characteristic of Alfa.
Volkswagen had stopped Boxer engine long time ago but is very brave with their W12 engine (that is two narrow V6 engines attached together).
Porsche and Subaru are still using Boxer engines as part of their line up in order trying to retain their identity.
Ferrari tried Flat 12 engine in the 1986 Testarossa (means Red Head in Italian) and F512M is a facelifted version of it back in the nineties. other Ferraris are using V engines, normally 90 degrees. These are evident in 288 GTO, 308GTB/GTS, 328GTB/GTS, 348GTB/GTS, 355, 360 Mondial, F40, F50 and F60. Normally the figures stand for engine capacity and number of cylinders but then I got lost of why.
288 = 2.8 litre 8 cylinder
308 = 3.0 V8
328 = 3.2 V8
348 = 3.4 V8
512 = 5.0 F12
while GTB stands for Gran Tourismo Berlinetta (hard top) and
GTS = Gran Tourismo Spider (open top)
I prefer Vee engines, smoother and compact in design although in the case of Kia Carnival you have to bring down the engine in order to replace the spark plugs of the inner bank. Not to mention 3 timing belt every time to change. ha ha ha pathetic but same engine is being used in British Jaguar S type 2.5V6, Rover 75 as well as Land Rover Freelander 2.5 V6 petrol.
The main advantage is low center of gravity thus improving handling and horizontal opposed cylinders have better dynamics compare to any other design. Maybe in large capacity but Alfa Romeo tried in smaller capacity (1.5, 1.6 and 1.7) but resulted shaky and vibrating engine especially if its factory set vacuum tune has been tempered.
This was no doubt as when Fiat took over Alfa, they slowly put the Boxer engine to history. Then started the use of in-line engines of similar block to Fiat but different head design which has unique characteristic of Alfa.
Volkswagen had stopped Boxer engine long time ago but is very brave with their W12 engine (that is two narrow V6 engines attached together).
Porsche and Subaru are still using Boxer engines as part of their line up in order trying to retain their identity.
Ferrari tried Flat 12 engine in the 1986 Testarossa (means Red Head in Italian) and F512M is a facelifted version of it back in the nineties. other Ferraris are using V engines, normally 90 degrees. These are evident in 288 GTO, 308GTB/GTS, 328GTB/GTS, 348GTB/GTS, 355, 360 Mondial, F40, F50 and F60. Normally the figures stand for engine capacity and number of cylinders but then I got lost of why.
288 = 2.8 litre 8 cylinder
308 = 3.0 V8
328 = 3.2 V8
348 = 3.4 V8
512 = 5.0 F12
while GTB stands for Gran Tourismo Berlinetta (hard top) and
GTS = Gran Tourismo Spider (open top)
I prefer Vee engines, smoother and compact in design although in the case of Kia Carnival you have to bring down the engine in order to replace the spark plugs of the inner bank. Not to mention 3 timing belt every time to change. ha ha ha pathetic but same engine is being used in British Jaguar S type 2.5V6, Rover 75 as well as Land Rover Freelander 2.5 V6 petrol.
sabelt said:
hi there... would like to understand more about this closed deck and open, semi-open deck... can you put it in more understandable terms for newbie like me?
i am seriously considering getting a WRX from MI.
try to get STI version rather than wrx....coz STI r more power....and d ecu oso can boost higher i guess.....
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boxer rumble
The distinctive rumble sound from a boxer is not only generated by the unequal length header pipes. It is also amplified by the firing order of a boxer angine, where for instance, both piston on one side of the engine move in phase (ie. up and down) with one another, this generate exhaust pulses of the same phase at one side of the engine whereas the opposite moves in opposite direction in relation to formal.
1 [||---|
|---||] 2
|---||] 3
4 [||---|
Ok, this should b clearer, piston 1&4 generates exhaust pulse of the same intensity (peak & trough) which is in opposite phase with pistons 2&3 as the non tune length exhaust header meets at the joint connecting to the turbine housing. Pulses collapse at the point whic are off phase (note 2 sets of pulses in an ideal situation) hence u hear the classical boxer note. Though it may sound good but this is actually a pitfall of boxer exhaust system, since when off phase exhaust pulses meet flow turbulence will form. Which in turns increases static pressure, also some effect on rotating effect of the turbine. Tune length header will be more space consuming and capital intensive hence was not adopted by earlier model WRX except MY03 above if I'm not wrong...
Hope this clear the air up a little.. might've made some mistakes or being unclear with my explaination.. Its late..
The distinctive rumble sound from a boxer is not only generated by the unequal length header pipes. It is also amplified by the firing order of a boxer angine, where for instance, both piston on one side of the engine move in phase (ie. up and down) with one another, this generate exhaust pulses of the same phase at one side of the engine whereas the opposite moves in opposite direction in relation to formal.
1 [||---|
|---||] 2
|---||] 3
4 [||---|
Ok, this should b clearer, piston 1&4 generates exhaust pulse of the same intensity (peak & trough) which is in opposite phase with pistons 2&3 as the non tune length exhaust header meets at the joint connecting to the turbine housing. Pulses collapse at the point whic are off phase (note 2 sets of pulses in an ideal situation) hence u hear the classical boxer note. Though it may sound good but this is actually a pitfall of boxer exhaust system, since when off phase exhaust pulses meet flow turbulence will form. Which in turns increases static pressure, also some effect on rotating effect of the turbine. Tune length header will be more space consuming and capital intensive hence was not adopted by earlier model WRX except MY03 above if I'm not wrong...
Hope this clear the air up a little.. might've made some mistakes or being unclear with my explaination.. Its late..
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boxer
THe freaking spacing of my the pistons can't seem to work... hope i dont confuse anyone
THe freaking spacing of my the pistons can't seem to work... hope i dont confuse anyone
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closed deck
Closed deck cylinders offers higher rigidity as well as allowing internal flow of coolant as mentioned previously, which also reduces thermal expansion/contraction of cylinder that causes distortion.
Closed deck cylinders offers higher rigidity as well as allowing internal flow of coolant as mentioned previously, which also reduces thermal expansion/contraction of cylinder that causes distortion.
huakenny said:
My budget doesn't allow me to get STi brand new... and I really only want to get it brand new. WRX, with manufacturer's warranty is very compelling. Plus, the 2004 models are going for a good price. Not to mention that it doesn't really take much to boost a standard WRX to 280hp at the crank.
endless551, nice technical writeup. But newbie like me still don't understand this closed deck cylinder thing. Can you put simpler term? Or is there any web site you can refer me to? Thanks. I really appreciate it.
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