Chassis Strengthening

[nikolaiski]

to be honest, BOTH ways stiffen the chassis lah. the difference is, just at different points..and you're correct mah..a spot weld uses electric currents to bond the new metal over the old one, thus stiffening ANY specific area you want to on your chassis. Technically, this allows you to exactly customize the welding to your driving needs. For example, i've seen drift cars and track cars spot weld differently, given that both cars are in sound condition with no need to correct the rusts/patchwork that is...

In my opinion, bars generally stiffen the chassis to correct understeer and oversteer rather than overall chassis flex, which is what welding does. But then again, the welder needs to be good as well, because you need to know exactly how thick and how dense the metals need to be before bonding it to the chassis.

If the uncle uses too little power then there won't be a good enough bond and (worse) the metal will just float away under all your paint/rustproofing/carpets, etc without you knowing..but then if too much he's gunna BBQ ur chassis...lol.

So I guess at the end of the day, adding/subtracting bars are better if you want to trial and error and want to find out what you want and to have a feel for the handling differences that happen as you bolt on/remove different combinations of bars to your car. However if you are more hardcore, and fussy like me, then bars will probably not be enough...hence d7zul's suggestion - u try the bars first lor..if tak suka then sell off and WELD!!!!!!!! hahaha

 

[nikolaiski]

to be honest, BOTH ways stiffen the chassis lah. the difference is, just at different points..and you're correct mah..a spot weld uses electric currents to bond the new metal over the old one, thus stiffening ANY specific area you want to on your chassis. Technically, this allows you to exactly customize the welding to your driving needs. For example, i've seen drift cars and track cars spot weld differently, given that both cars are in sound condition with no need to correct the rusts/patchwork that is...

In my opinion, bars generally stiffen the chassis to correct understeer and oversteer rather than overall chassis flex, which is what welding does. But then again, the welder needs to be good as well, because you need to know exactly how thick and how dense the metals need to be before bonding it to the chassis.

If the uncle uses too little power then there won't be a good enough bond and (worse) the metal will just float away under all your paint/rustproofing/carpets, etc without you knowing..but then if too much he's gunna BBQ ur chassis...lol.

So I guess at the end of the day, adding/subtracting bars are better if you want to trial and error and want to find out what you want and to have a feel for the handling differences that happen as you bolt on/remove different combinations of bars to your car. However if you are more hardcore, and fussy like me, then bars will probably not be enough...hence d7zul's suggestion - u try the bars first lor..if tak suka then sell off and WELD!!!!!!!! hahaha

 

[jswong]

My personal experience with UR bars in my old Wira - 3 point fender bars, 4-point front strut bar, room bar, and rear 3-point bar - These bars worked as advertised in numerous ways. My suspension setup is just a combination of Sapura springs and APM Performax shock absorbers, so the car wasn't lowered by much and it's still comfortable when driven over bumps.

During hard cornering and all, the car feels more planted with the bars on than they were before I installed the bars. And that's when I'm driving with 205/45R16 tyres. It's still comfortable when I drive over road undulations, probably because I don't have those hard-as-a-rock short stroke or adjustable suspension kits.

There was a time when my car was hit by another car that flew out of a junction while I was on the main road and had right-of-way. The driver was SMSing and didn't pay attention to driving. The front end of my car got struck at an angle, and due to the speed, the car continued smashing up the rest of the front end of my car, resulting in the destruction of my entire front bumper, the radiator, headlamps, bonnet, etc. The front panel was totally smashed that the body shop had to knock it out and weld a replacement front panel assembly (the front section to which the headlamps, radiator, etc. are mounted).

To the bodyshop's surprise, they expected the front bulkheads to require pulling, since the car struck the front half of my left fender. But after removing the damaged wheel and the fender panel, they discovered that the bulkhead only needed knocking to straighten out the dent on its front end, and the chassis alignment for my whole front end was intact. The surprised bodyshop mechanic attributed the lack of chassis distortion to the 3-point fender bars and the 4-point strut bars that had vastly improved the strength of my car's front end. He said that usually in such cases, they would be putting those hooks and chains at the bulk head and straightening them out, but in my case, it's all just knocking and panel-beating.

 

[Veloc]

My personal experience with UR bars in my old Wira - 3 point fender bars, 4-point front strut bar, room bar, and rear 3-point bar - These bars worked as advertised in numerous ways. My suspension setup is just a combination of Sapura springs and APM Performax shock absorbers, so the car wasn't lowered by much and it's still comfortable when driven over bumps.

During hard cornering and all, the car feels more planted with the bars on than they were before I installed the bars. And that's when I'm driving with 205/45R16 tyres. It's still comfortable when I drive over road undulations, probably because I don't have those hard-as-a-rock short stroke or adjustable suspension kits.

There was a time when my car was hit by another car that flew out of a junction while I was on the main road and had right-of-way. The driver was SMSing and didn't pay attention to driving. The front end of my car got struck at an angle, and due to the speed, the car continued smashing up the rest of the front end of my car, resulting in the destruction of my entire front bumper, the radiator, headlamps, bonnet, etc. The front panel was totally smashed that the body shop had to knock it out and weld a replacement front panel assembly (the front section to which the headlamps, radiator, etc. are mounted).

To the bodyshop's surprise, they expected the front bulkheads to require pulling, since the car struck the front half of my left fender. But after removing the damaged wheel and the fender panel, they discovered that the bulkhead only needed knocking to straighten out the dent on its front end, and the chassis alignment for my whole front end was intact. The surprised bodyshop mechanic attributed the lack of chassis distortion to the 3-point fender bars and the 4-point strut bars that had vastly improved the strength of my car's front end. He said that usually in such cases, they would be putting those hooks and chains at the bulk head and straightening them out, but in my case, it's all just knocking and panel-beating.

Hey thanks for sharing this testimony! Really helped. But about the accident thing, first time I heard that it reduced the damage. Most people say that it increases damage because a knock on one side will transfer the force and damage right over the other side. But I guess maybe those are for hard rock impacts. Thanks again!

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

well regarding about welding....

if me re-building any chasis for any motorsports reason....i would go for doublestiching on all area...means strenghten all of the chasis first......

before proceed with handling/chasis tuning with strenghten bars..since any further additional weight reduce the power advantage(or might turn into disadvantage)...especially when rollcage needed....

if rollcage was compulsary....i would design the cage to connect with chasis minimum at 10mounting point...so it would eliminate the need of additional strenghten bar....


btw..that was for motorsport case la.....if daily use stripping your car for preparation of double stiching was already a headache....

 

[mADmAN]

rollcage + spotwelding =

itll be nice and stiff man....

i really wish i had the time n cash to do that for my car.... but then again...my car is a daily driven so i guess spot welding only la... that oso no time n cash...

Hey thanks for sharing this testimony! Really helped. But about the accident thing, first time I heard that it reduced the damage. Most people say that it increases damage because a knock on one side will transfer the force and damage right over the other side. But I guess maybe those are for hard rock impacts. Thanks again!

one of the few testimonies about UR bars and crashes... u can go to their website and read more. theres quite a number of testimonies regarding cars fitted with UR bars involved in crashes.

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

madman....

well if purposely go to workshop for having spotweld i think sure gonna cost a bomb....but if happens your car resting bodyshop due to crash/rebuild then its the perfect time to kill 2birds with one stone.....to repair your car's body along with double stich/double spotweld....


or u can opt spotweld on "easy to reach" area which was more critical such as around suspension tower(all 4 tyre well) and rear arm mounting area.....

(*the term easy to reach not as easy as pie but atleast less hassle than stripping whole car)

then u can fine tuning handling by adding bars/play with anti-roll bar setup/suspension setup...that would be my ideal chasis strengthen on road car

 

[mADmAN]

my old EF (which was about 8 years ago) had chassis strengthening... ex-owner said he did it for RM700. whole car stripped out including the engine bay...

back then...i heard that JFA was doing it for slightly more oso...

gonna have my car repainted one of these days as its white now and i want it black. so see how la... might do it when the time comes and if cash is available.

 

[upontheriversky]

how about get autofoam for whole chassis front to rear and whole side a,b and c pillars, then reinforce with bars?

i think it would be a nice combo, we get stiffer frames from the bars for less flexes and stresses on the frames induced from hard cornering will be counter balanced by the foam, so stresses can be well managed. we can prevent sudden cracks since hollow parts are padat-ed by those stress-absorbing foams. the absorbing ability should also ease the harshness on bushings, hard adjustables and our butt by sharing the loads when going thru uneven roads. can be costly but the balance is there

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

yep..alternatively autofoam help reduce the hassle of spotwelding....

 

[LittleWhiteWagon]

how about get autofoam for whole chassis front to rear and whole side a,b and c pillars, then reinforce with bars?

i think it would be a nice combo, we get stiffer frames from the bars for less flexes and stresses on the frames induced from hard cornering will be counter balanced by the foam, so stresses can be well managed. we can prevent sudden cracks since hollow parts are padat-ed by those stress-absorbing foams. the absorbing ability should also ease the harshness on bushings, hard adjustables and our butt by sharing the loads when going thru uneven roads. can be costly but the balance is there

Heheh this is where I start to get bising since im running autofoam + a strutbar from UR.



Okay. Story time! 3 years ago, my car was rearended by a Jeep Cherokee with a bullbar. Ever since then my car has been squeaking like a mouse because of the large tailgate area being missaligned even though repaired. Then about 6 months after I found out about autofoam.

Got the whole wagon autfoamed A+B+C+D pillars, whole car lah. Every single hollow hole is filled with foam.

After that immediately the car was COMPLETELY QUIET. No ngeeknok sounds from the back at all...


Anyways thats the first, the UR strutbar works like any other, just holds the strut towers in place. Im running 6.5kg TiTan coilovers which are... meh. Stiff. Bouncy. HAHA and yes 1 strutbar it has a noticeable diff.


But IMO if you can afford the whole autofoam package its definately worth it lah. Its expensive but it works well.

OH and I forgot to mention, the foam is extremely light compared to a UR bar.

 

[YYC]

:hmmmm2: My car already has many squeaky sounds from all over, even without an accident.
Definitely will save up fund for the full chassis autofoam project.

 

[g4i8y0t]

about this autofoam.. is there any chance that hollow chassis part filled with autofoam will develop rust later because of the moisture trapped?

 

[Izso]

about this autofoam.. is there any chance that hollow chassis part filled with autofoam will develop rust later because of the moisture trapped?

That's a good question. I want to know as well.

But from what I understand, they use Wurth foam and that one once hardened is porous so it shouldn't trap the moisture kwa?

 

[YYC]

about this autofoam.. is there any chance that hollow chassis part filled with autofoam will develop rust later because of the moisture trapped?

Emmmm, this one should put it to the autofoam guys, if the hollow spaces are not filled up entirely condensation might occurs inside...? But even without autofoam the hollow chassis already succumbs to moisture... is it?

 

[LittleWhiteWagon]

:hmmmm2: My car already has many squeaky sounds from all over, even without an accident.
Definitely will save up fund for the full chassis autofoam project.

Haha my car doesnt have MUCH squeaks anymore, now its just rattling all over due to the suspension. Stiff suspension has drawbacks too haha

---------- Post added at 12:43 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:41 AM ----------

about this autofoam.. is there any chance that hollow chassis part filled with autofoam will develop rust later because of the moisture trapped?

That im not sure, they dont foam water drainage holes, just the chassis rails where water doesnt enter. Anyways even if it DID somehow magically enter, the foam is fireproof, waterproof, solid but absorbs impact.

Im 75kg *akibat of eating at mamaks often LOL* and 1 500ml coke bottle full of the foam can withstand my weight.

---------- Post added at 12:46 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:43 AM ----------

Emmmm, this one should put it to the autofoam guys, if the hollow spaces are not filled up entirely condensation might occurs inside...? But even without autofoam the hollow chassis already succumbs to moisture... is it?

They put in foam untill it overflows. Its a VERY VERY messy job, I dont think they leave air bubbles anywhere inside haha. You'll have bits and pieces of foam hanging under the car once done. Maybe I should put some pics up? :hmmmm:

 

[YYC]

Haha my car doesnt have MUCH squeaks anymore, now its just rattling all over due to the suspension. Stiff suspension has drawbacks too haha

Autofoam couldn't solve the rattling noise?

 

[VectorX2]

Autofoam couldn't solve the rattling noise?

depends on where the rattling sound comes from... if it's sumting like the dash board or the seat rails which is not connected to the chasis of the body structure, surely hard suspensions will rattle them...

 

[LittleWhiteWagon]

Autofoam couldn't solve the rattling noise?

Haha vector answered it for me dah, yeah my car has been in an accident before so a LOT of plastic clips here and there are missing, missaligned or loose. The foam cant stop that unfortunately...

It does make a wagon handle well though

 

[g4i8y0t]

anyone can reccommend place to do foaming for whole car in penang or ipoh?