GSR blues and BOV problem..advice plssss

[Dino@Casper]

for NA you will need a proper size exhaust for scavenging effect but turbo application
there is no need for that effect because the air is forced into the engine.... try to take a pressure reading from a turbo manifold during full boost.... If you r boosting at lower boost certain size is acceptable but when you r boosting 2 bar and higher with bigger turbo(flow more than 60lbs) the big size exhaust will help you a lot.

Alright so you are saying when we are boosting up to 2 bar, which in the case of a 4G93T is highly difficult... Lets assume you would be able to do so..

Firstly i would like to ask as u increase the diameter of your pipe, the cross sectional area would than increase and so the heat flux would follow suit and there would results in more heat being lost to the surrounding as heat is loss, kinectic energy decrease and therefore your air compresses and the more dense the air the more back pressure you would than suffer..

And another thing if you say the bigger the better, the head loss in ur exhaust in the sense energy loss due to friction in pipe varies with the velocity, friction factor and diamater and length of the pipe

Head loss = friction factor * diameter/length * Velocity^2 / 2g

Friction factor depends on Reynolds number which is than related back to velocity.. As the reynold number increases the friction factor decrease... and than velocity is related to the diameter of the pipe.. Therefore all this are inter-related so we would need to optimize the size of the pipe the length of the pipe.. its not that simple just one big pipe than everything is settle...

If you want I could try to simulate this on ANSYS CFD module and we would see if you are correct.

 

[mengz]

ur gonna have one hell of a good thesis :) be sure to share it with us after u've completed it.

anyways, i agree with dino. the bigger the diameter of ur piping, the sooner the exhaust gas cools down, hence lower velocity. now the 'fresh' exhaust gas coming out from ur combustion chamber is gonna have to push even harder to exit.

i believe theres always a sweet spot for everything we do. i seriously doubt that if he goes from 3inch piping to 4inch piping, he is gonna get more power, putting aside the noise level. no exhaust is the best exhaust, like a track car setup. but the noise....omg!!!

 

[jaydee]

If its JUST bigger the better I wouldn't agree to that...
If the meaning is : Bigger diameter with 'bigger power', then it make more sense to me...

 

[Dino@Casper]

Yeah that would be correct as the capacity of the engine increase, naturally we would need to increase the pipe size so that the flow is sufficent.. so hope u guys don't get fool by the word bigger the better... for turbo.. everything has its optimum design

Mengz : yeah i hope that everything will work out smoothly for my thesis.. still considering aerodynamics or this kind of fluid flow.. hehehe hard 2 choose from..

 

[khoyos]

haha all the sifus arguing again. by the way, i think 2.5in is still the best option for gsr...

 

[Dino@Casper]

I ain't any sifu man.. my experince its just so so when i was working in Links as a trainee during my summer break.. I just wanted to state out that in theory bigger isn't really better, what more in real life cases..

 

[jo1]

the velocity is very important before the turbine housing to spool the turbo.... the higher the heat the higher velocity you get, that why the tunner play around with the ignition to get that. After the turbine housing the bigger piping will flow more because of no restriction even the velocity decrease as you said. I'm not suggesting to install a 4" piping for a GSR, the size that original poster stated is whether he should change from 3" to 2.5"...... sound is the limit for me.. but than what do i know, i'm not working at Link and don't have any book to refer... just my experience with my own car. After all i'm not the one who do the research on fluid or whatever....

 

[Dino@Casper]

U were talking about back pressure some i'm telling you that if u increase your exhaust size too big than u will suffer back pressure again and therefore increase the time taken to spool the turbo.

 

[jo1]

in other way for NA car which need backpressure have to install bigger piping to increase backpressure....???

i'm talking about turbo car... when the boost increase without increasing the exhaust size the backpressure will increase... don't simulate with your software.... do a test with your turbo car first.... maybe during your trainee they teach you to tune a car with std wiring from 500hp to a mere 3++ using a motec.... it not the motec is wrong but the tuner is....

 

[Dino@Casper]

Haih, if ur exhaust too small also will suffer back pressure, for everything there is an optimum size..

You are saying don't simulated? now i'm using basic calculations also show that you cannot increase the size just like that.. And during my training, after replacing the turbo like on a skyline from twin to single.. we again need to change the exhaust... its not you wanna increase just increaes.. no such thing as sound is the limit man..

http://www.ansys.com/products/cfx.asp
This is the program that we are using, it has to be accurate.. I'm not discussing with u anything to do with the setting on the ECU... i'm talking in terms of mechanical capacity of the engine first, its a 1.8 i know its possible to use a 3inch and there are surely ppl using that. But my question here is it right to use 3inch, it depends on his modification to his ride..

 

[Prodrive_2068]

wwwaahhh..after reading this..i should have listened to my dad to do engineering man..hehhe interesting things goin on here..but seriously Dine,the 3" inch was terrible and the curves and crazee bends of the pipe makes it hard for me to reach that 'Optimum' level of satisfactory in term of power..

after changing it to a 2.5" straight flow..it felt better even with standard fueling of a 390cc injectors..i have no regrets with the 2.5" at all..now my ride feels lighter in terms of pressure and great in terms of power...

i do not know any figures or calculations related to pipes or fluid flow..but its hell of an interesting thing to read about..i'm an IT graduate but to my knowledge..computer simulation is closest to real life cases..thats why its been created anyway...so cheers bro Dino..thanx a bunch and good luck for ut thesis..i seriously suggest u go for this topic as u have much to dig out from. even from tk ur boss..hehhe i mean former boss.

i really learn alot but now looking at a new project..not much..i just got myself a 510 evo3 rs injectors..i know installing it without proper tuning will cause super rich fuelling and that motobot sound at high rev..so wat do u think..?? safc or safc2 that'll do the trick..?? i havent install the injectors yet..i'm currently running on a TD05HL twin finn turbo from VR4 rs..ur knowledge willl be much appreciated dude..hehhe

come le..one day after hari raya we go yamcha..i buy u teh tarik.all of u in fact..i'm learning more than i can think of..this is better than college..WWwooohhoo!!!!

 

[Prodrive_2068]

so dont stop the good advice and tips..i'm loving and learining from all this post..if only u guys can see my face now..i'm smiling from ear to ear..hehhe

cheers everybody..!!!

 

[Dino@Casper]

Safc will do the job for sure, but why not invest slighty more and get something that could tune your ignition cause if u do increase the boost in the future which i know u surely would.. I think you would definetely need this..

 

[keong_GSR]

yes,u can used 3 inch for gsr IF u can make it 400~500bhp!!! did u guys notice that stock GSR or EVO exhaust piping? 2.2 inch only,babe! i used to quarrel with my foreman regarding d intercooler piping and d exhaust piping... i'm now using 2000 cc n most of my fren using 3 inch from intercooler pipe till exhaust piping... my forman suggest me to go for 2.2 inch but where to find d 2.2 steel piping? so got to use 2 inch as intercooler pipe then mix it with 2.5 pipe from trottlebody... my turbo pipe till airflow is 4 inch!!! ar70 mulut banyak besar,4 inch so no use inducer hose,just hantam 4 inch direct... exhaust is 3 inch!my foreman said u want to play pick up mar...see nuar motorsport car for example...piping intercooler only 2.2 inch leh...

 

[keong_GSR]

wwwaahhh..after reading this..i should have listened to my dad to do engineering man..hehhe interesting things goin on here..but seriously Dine,the 3" inch was terrible and the curves and crazee bends of the pipe makes it hard for me to reach that 'Optimum' level of satisfactory in term of power..

after changing it to a 2.5" straight flow..it felt better even with standard fueling of a 390cc injectors..i have no regrets with the 2.5" at all..now my ride feels lighter in terms of pressure and great in terms of power...

i do not know any figures or calculations related to pipes or fluid flow..but its hell of an interesting thing to read about..i'm an IT graduate but to my knowledge..computer simulation is closest to real life cases..thats why its been created anyway...so cheers bro Dino..thanx a bunch and good luck for ut thesis..i seriously suggest u go for this topic as u have much to dig out from. even from tk ur boss..hehhe i mean former boss.

i really learn alot but now looking at a new project..not much..i just got myself a 510 evo3 rs injectors..i know installing it without proper tuning will cause super rich fuelling and that motobot sound at high rev..so wat do u think..?? safc or safc2 that'll do the trick..?? i havent install the injectors yet..i'm currently running on a TD05HL twin finn turbo from VR4 rs..ur knowledge willl be much appreciated dude..hehhe

come le..one day after hari raya we go yamcha..i buy u teh tarik.all of u in fact..i'm learning more than i can think of..this is better than college..WWwooohhoo!!!!

510cc is too big for stock GSR,why dun u try 450cc from vr4 or rvr? did u know that we only used 80% from d 390cc stock injector,so we still got 20% extra,u need atleast d piggy back to squize d 20% out... safc is ok but e-manage lagi cun! price for those brand new i think almost d same but e-manage got more function then afc... of cos stand alone is da best,same like it price!:X-:

 

[Dino@Casper]

Yeah i would suggest e-manage too... hehehehe.. price around the same, only thing u dun get the blue screen.. heheheh :p

 

[jo1]

any piggyback or management is depend on the tuner, no point having a super duper EMS or piggyback but the tuner cannot utilise it. What i will suggest is find a good tuner then talk to them about the piggyback/ems he familiar with.

As for injector, there are a few GSR with 510 injector using piggyback/ems and the tuner manage to tune it with better power and FC.

 

[keong_GSR]

any piggyback or management is depend on the tuner, no point having a super duper EMS or piggyback but the tuner cannot utilise it. What i will suggest is find a good tuner then talk to them about the piggyback/ems he familiar with.

As for injector, there are a few GSR with 510 injector using piggyback/ems and the tuner manage to tune it with better power and FC.

GT auto is my 1st choice...:_:

 

[Dino@Casper]

Yeah GT auto isn't too bad, if you are going for e-manage u can try links are they are the dealers appointed by mutiaramotors if i'm not mistaken.. either one of this shops would be able to help u out

 

[Prodrive_2068]

yeah dude..i go to gt auto too..links is giid but for high end cars and stand alone la..the tuning price also kaw kaw like klcc..hehehe anyway,saving cash for a blue emanage now..hopefully after raya plus with ang pau can sapu one..hehhe