i just did my ground cable... share share

[nitrus]

my car around 1 year old... carbie ..
i ground

1) alternator
2) distributor
3) bulk head
4) firewall
5) engine cover

.. after i did the ground.. i notice sometimes i start car abit harder to start .
but cannot be my spark plug coz its not even a year old plugs , somemore its Iridium..

during morning/cold start it's good, car start fast .. but sometimes after i leave the car few hours, then go back car, abit hard to start .. (i have to press accelerator abit also sometimes only it will start)

n i notice when my car hard to start, the battery light on my meter panel will like blink longer.. like as if my battery not strong or something..

wonder issit becoz of my alternator ? or coz my car carbie no need grounding cable? or battery no good?
remember my car not even 1 year old .. so battery all still new..

can anyone help ..? i dunno if its my alternator grounding take up alot of "battery current", coz i ground at another screw at the side of the alternator, beside the 12mm screw. (i think Huakenny u know which screw i talking about)

so how ..? wat u all think is wrong?
or it's normal tat sometimes car harder to start even if with good spark plugs..?

:shcokedcamo:

 

[nitrus]

no one can help me ?

 

[tylaxng]

hi nitrus,

can you provide more info about your car? like grounding photo(every connect points), how long u install grounding cable...

based on info ur provide, "i think" your car "leakage current" increase.....(maybe no cause by ur grounding cable)

let your battery consume quickly, when your car "idle"...

can you use "multimeter" (make sure ur multimeter can measure more than 1A) measure your car "idle" current consume?

u need measure 2 times, one is with grounding cable...... one remove ur grounding cable....

if w/o cable value less than grounding value......

i think you better remove your grounding cable...... and check your every connect point carefully....

wish can help u...

 

[tylaxng]

hahaha

now i more more blur blur......

hahaha.. nvm la... i need spend few year to understand also....

let me explain briefly for capacitance, inductance, conductance and resistance..

(actually capture from book... :regular_smile: )

capacitance is a measure of the ability of a device to store energy in the form of separated charge or an electric field.

inductance is a measure of the ability of a device to store energy in the form of a magnetic field.

resistance is the physical property of an element or device that impedes the flow of current and also measure of an element's ability to dissipate power irreversibly.

and conductance = 1/resistance...

ok.. from above we can notice that inductance and capacitance used in "store energy"... and this 2 value can be effect by how much of the current flow through and use at wat environment .... so this 2 value is dependant.... and we hard to control.... (still can control la.. but easy to change when environment different, especially engine room....)

remember I said length increase = resistance increase = inductance increase, this theory can use only at straight wire, this theory can be reverse when coil ur wire.... length increase = resistance increase = inductance decrease.... haha... confuse:shocked: , interest people can go this website for inductor formula with different way: http://www.hills2.u-net.com/electron/induct.htm

i agree c-ground say, dont coil ur grounding wire coz more turn of ur coil wire, inductance increase is dramatically....

let us back to the basic problem, it's inductance increase will effect ur grounding, ans is Yes, but no obvious or totally no effect...

y yes?
wat the purpose of grounding cable? it's let the negative current go back negative terminal faster or reduce resistance from load to negative terminal, if cable inductance value increase or big wat will happen? it willl let ur cable become energy store device, current flow through this cable will store inside, and discharge when saturation or stop supply current.... this condition will let current flow block or slow when this cable at charging time. Grounding effect become bad when this condition occur...

y no obvious or totally no effect?
if got equipment, u can try measure the inductance value inside one "straight" cable.. i can said is approach zero... (it's no mH or uH, less than tat), less inductance means store engercy capability less also...

for my point, we can ignore the inductance effect for every car grounding and just focus the cable quality(less resistance), below is my some experience for car grounding:

1. cable cross-section dimension big, like 4ga or 0ga(too critical liao) cable
2. reduce cable length from one point to another point
3. avoid coil ur cable, less corner good also
4. more wire connect to ground....(reasonable...)
5. anti oxygen terminal head..
6. good wiring... (try avoid ur cable "float" above/below operation part like belt, gear...)
7. good grounding kit material (not just metal part, cable cover need to care also. this one hard to eye check, find trust grounding kit vendor)

and last, pardon of my poor english...:embaressed_smile:

 

[nitrus]

ok i'll take pics of each grounding point ..
the before , and now after ... coz i removed 1 of the cable from the Alternator (coz i think maybe that cud be the one making my battery weak?)

see la i'll show the pics soon ...

but bro i really dont get wat u trying to say la .. multimeter , leakage current ... wah... :hmmmm2:

hi nitrus,

can you provide more info about your car? like grounding photo(every connect points), how long u install grounding cable...

based on info ur provide, "i think" your car "leakage current" increase.....(maybe no cause by ur grounding cable)

let your battery consume quickly, when your car "idle"...

can you use "multimeter" (make sure ur multimeter can measure more than 1A) measure your car "idle" current consume?

u need measure 2 times, one is with grounding cable...... one remove ur grounding cable....

if w/o cable value less than grounding value......

i think you better remove your grounding cable...... and check your every connect point carefully....

wish can help u...

 

[tylaxng]

haha.. soli soli.. too technical liao...(job sick...)

multimeter is:

http://www.tecratools.com/pages/service/graphics/37387vm.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/db/Multimeter.jpg/180px-Multimeter.jpg

leakage current: means when ur car "idle", some abnormal consume of your battey...

 

[huakenny]

no one can help me ?

lets me inspect..hehe

 

[huakenny]

..

can anyone help ..? i dunno if its my alternator grounding take up alot of "battery current", coz i ground at another screw at the side of the alternator, beside the 12mm screw. (i think Huakenny u know which screw i talking about)

try to change the alternator point le...i not suggested to ground there le...too tight...go hardware shop buy the nut la...

take from the tauke n go to test....see can lock into the 12mm screw o not...if yes..pay money....if not..find again

 

[c-ground]

for my point, we can ignore the inductance effect for every car grounding and just focus the cable quality(less resistance), below is my some experience for car grounding:

1. cable cross-section dimension big, like 4ga or 0ga(too critical liao) cable
2. reduce cable length from one point to another point
3. avoid coil ur cable, less corner good also
4. more wire connect to ground....(reasonable...)
5. anti oxygen terminal head..
6. good wiring... (try avoid ur cable "float" above/below operation part like belt, gear...)
7. good grounding kit material (not just metal part, cable cover need to care also. this one hard to eye check, find trust grounding kit vendor)

and last, pardon of my poor english...:embaressed_smile:

Exactly, and some of the importance of these points have been highlighted in http://drexchan.fotopic.net/c817988.html.

 

[kww]

nitrus, usually you can just ask the workshop for one, there are planty on the floor. If you really want a new one you can go to Jalan Loke Yew close to Jalan Pudu look for Asia Bolt (I think the name is correct, chinese name I know.), they sell all sort of nuts.

 

[nitrus]

nitrus, usually you can just ask the workshop for one, there are planty on the floor. If you really want a new one you can go to Jalan Loke Yew close to Jalan Pudu look for Asian Nut (I think the name is correct, chinese name I know.), they sell all sort of nuts.

tnx very much for the suggestion.. i will check it out tnx.. :)

 

[nitrus]

tylaxng, here is the pics...

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b312/eneguenas/Image1648.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b312/eneguenas/Image1649.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b312/eneguenas/Image1650.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b312/eneguenas/Image1651.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b312/eneguenas/Image1652.jpg

there's one more point pic not taken.. its on the right side of engine bay, shifted from alternator ..

so wat u think?

 

[merzlimo77]

wooyoo..so many cable going here n there.i come across this thing about 15 years ago.it was my 120y.got problem wit alternator and the wireman after fixing my alternator he install extra 2 wire.same size they use for spotlight wiring.1 from + terminal of the alternator to + terminal of the bateri.second from alternator body to - terminal of the bateri.it does its job well.no more singing from my radio when the volume is 0 n lights are sure brighter.till today my alternator is working well too.and the car is still running.if u see a 120y no JAR883 u stop me lar.i show u.i dunno how to upload pics lar.still computer illiterate a bit.

 

[tylaxng]

hi nitrus,

yesterday morning i changed my exhaust pipe, and discuss your problem with mechanic, from them's opinion, ur problem should cause by petrol no complete burning and block inside the oil pipe when u stop ur car and close the engine immediately...

tat's y when your morning can easi start car, coz petrol already slowly flowing back to oil tank. it's the common problem in new model proton carb especially iswara a/b (new saga).

my car model same with u, 1 year ++ already, ur problem i also facing but no always occur... coz i use my car at morning go to office, and evening go back home, one day normally just 2 times drive my car onli, and i have the adapt when i stop my car i'm no immediately switch off, normally waiting at least 1min.

mechanic give me 3 way to solve it:
1. change oil punch (dont know can solve or not, no recommend except u have trust mechanic or car shop)
2. dont immediately switch off ur car.
3. before start engine, hold down ur accelerator few second.

i check ur photo, no problem at every point, but i think u can improve it.
1. second photo(firewall point), got one small wire attach with ur grounding cable, replace it with ur grouding cable, i think around battery there got another one, u can change it also.
2. use cable tie arrange ur cable wiring, more safety especially when road condition no go (many hole lar..)
3. first photo(alternator) buying 2 nuts lock ur cable....

p/s: i no familiar car engine especially every part's english name, i understand my mechanic said, pardon my poor english and wish can help u......

 

[nitrus]

wahhh tylaxng, your effort amazes me la bro... thank u thank u :_:
will try on wat u said ..

oh u driving same car as me?? nice...

so i think the best thing to try to do now is don't stop the car straight away ? leave it on at least .. 1 minute? ok..

anyway tylaxng, since u driving same car as me .. wanna ask u something ar (maybe outta topic sorry) ...
when u at 1st Gear, car stationary .. when u wanna move that time, do u sometimes feel like the car quite slow? below 2000rpm ..
like u have to press abit more the accelerator only the car surge forward better..

 

[tylaxng]

hi nitrus,

it's my pleasure if my ans can help u..... :regular_smile:

i think we discuss things really out of topic liao....

u can add my yahoo msg...... id: tylax_ng

 

[c-ground]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b312/eneguenas/Image1652.jpg

Overally nice job. But seems like some cables are too long and some are too short (look at the straight one). Try to change the cables. If you can't do it, don't feel bad. Everyone has this problem using an after market universal kit.

 

[c-ground]

1. second photo(firewall point), got one small wire attach with ur grounding cable, replace it with ur grouding cable, i think around battery there got another one, u can change it also.
2. use cable tie arrange ur cable wiring, more safety especially when road condition no go (many hole lar..)
3. first photo(alternator) buying 2 nuts lock ur cable....

1. Removal of the stock grounding cables after a proper grounding job is not neccesary. The stock ground cables (yellow-black) do no harm to the car. Leave them alone if warranty issue is what you concern. In addition, to reversibly removing the cable (from the battery, connecting to the chassis, and then to the engine block require) a new battery terminal connector (to connect the distribution plate) like http://cground.fotopic.net/p24158104.html. In addition, you can't be sure that the new cables is any better than the stock cable unless you do a comparison like http://cground.fotopic.net/p24644378.html and http://cground.fotopic.net/p24708449.html. If the stock cable from the battery is cut from the stock connector, there will be no turning back.

2. yes, use cable ties.. try not to space the cables. Tie them as close as possible, but not to harm the insulation lar..

3. yes, 12mm nut is available in every hardware shop..

 

[nitrus]

tylaxng, here is the pics...

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b312/eneguenas/Image1648.jpg

c-ground : can i ask u something if u dun mind...

is it ok if i ground the cable at the lower left screw there? (in the pic i circled it on the lower left)

it's tight when i screw it on, but is it a bad/wrong place to ground ? coz i can't ground the other long screw on the upper right..

 

[c-ground]

c-ground : can i ask u something if u dun mind...

is it ok if i ground the cable at the lower left screw there? (in the pic i circled it on the lower left)

it's tight when i screw it on, but is it a bad/wrong place to ground ? coz i can't ground the other long screw on the upper right..

Both points are fine. Even better if you do it at the tightening (side) screw instead of the adjusting (long) screw. Anyway, I don't understand why you "can't" do it on the long screw. We have done so many Sagas/Iswaras/Wiras with various 4G engines.. no problem at all!

Just to remind you, the 12mm nut actually need a 13mm spaner. Where's your location? Come to get it done with us when you are free.