What's the main difference between Evo 9 and X?

[mizunori77]

dear andreas,

no matter what evo u decided to buy, nice to know u and have u in our club....waiting for your new ride and we go cruising uphill...heard you are a pretty daring driver....by the way, nice to meet u at tt the other nite and couldnt have chance to talk to u coz u r so occupied with our taikors.........aka big bro ben, bro leslie and bro mizu......

i'm not taikor la... just happen to sit there only...

besides, u and chairman got discussion ma... i small kuchirat dun dare to join ur discussion... must be some new place har...

 

[A4XRBJ1]

Errr... I disagreed tht when u aiming for 400-500hp, u hv to dismantled the MIVEC system for tht... Hahaha... I'm sure some of u must hv heard abt the HKS V Cams system!!! This V Cams system (both intake and exhuast cams) r specially design for Evos tht r not equiped with the MIVEC system in order for them to get the similar low end torque power as did in MIVEC turbo Evos, even if they r aiming for high hp for their cars.... HKS even develop this system for other cars too, eg. GTRs, Z33, Scooby and many others... This cams hv got higher lifts and degrees for various set up....

And of cos, HKS do hv records to prove (dyno charts on various type of cars tht r using the V Cams system to gain higher hp but oso maintaining the low end pull force)... There were comparison charts for cars going with n without the V Cams... And d diff r obvious!!!

In d market now, there r oredi lotsa after mkt parts for Evo X!!! Strokers, turbos, ECUs, suspensions, bodykits, rims n etc... U name it, they hv it... What i love most from the Evo X is the 2 Recaro seats!!! Hahaha... They r NICE n comfy!!!

Andreas,

Sorry tht i didnt make it to the last TT!!! Hahaha... As Ben hv said, I'm an uncle now!!! Hahaha... Hardly 'able' to hangout late!!! But I'm sure we will b able to meet up soon!!! Cheerz!!! If u do need any info as in E9, i'll try my best to answer u ya~

Oh ya, how high hp u r aiming at 'If' u r going for the Evo X?! Cos 5 speeder manual will hv better potential than the SST tranny!!! If I'm not wrong, the SST tranny will 'onli' b able to stand up to ard 400hp... It will b an expensive item to repair or replace, if it really gives problems or give way due to higher hp from yr set up!!! But i know tht HKS is gonna come out with some sort of after mkt tuning package for the SST Evo X...

But i dun think it will b a big problem, as the same case oso apply to Nissan latest KING of the road - GTR35... Ppl jus add a bigger old pan, a gearbox oil cooler, higher quality gear oil (all WILLALL racing products) and then most importantly they 're-tune' d gearbox system too - especially d Launch control... I think sooner or later, they will hv the similar products for the Evo X SST box too... Will keep u n everyone on update on this...

James,

Ooi... No Pamela Anderson la... Onli Tavia Yeung nia~~~ LOLzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

James,

thx for u post lah. Some comments from my side.

As I'm used to have VTEC in my last two cars (Honda CRX and S2000), the obvious is that there is only soo much you can do to cams when you change for example the size of the intake and outtake ports size in a good head job, you optimize the manifold and intake on the flow bench, the amount of fuel you're providing (by more fuel pressure or better bigger injectors), the ignition setting most of all. This is going to influence your optimal cams setting, as with a different amount of air/fuel mixture you put in and a different timing on ignition you need to alter your cams too when it comes to when they should open and close and how much overlap you need.

It all has to do with the perfect burning of the fuel in the small fraction of time that two cycles give you. Depending on the quality of the fuel it burns with a specific speed per millisecond, you don't want to see detonation happen or pre-ignition, you don't want to let unburned fuel exit through outtake into your cat killing it (gives nice flames though), right?

So to let's say 80% you're right, the cams will provide more hp along you tune, but for the last 20% of power your might need to look at your cams too, changing their profile along with your extreme tuning measures, otherwise you'll loose potential there. I have a good friend who calculated cam profiles when he was working for a car manufacture in Germany.

On the other hand I'll probably be happy with just adding 100 hp or so to my stock hp.

When it comes to wear and tear on your SST, this once again is depending on your tune. The thing that is going to kill you SST is the high torque, higher than the components can last, right? This is why some car manufactures are limiting their torque like Brabus or the Bugatti Veyron.

You can achieve this in your tune by limiting boost in lower gears (at least it's possible with a good standalone EMS) and only allowing full boost for example in 5th and 6th gear (when you go for max speed and power).


Just my two cents, but very interesting discussion I see,

Andreas

---------- Post added at 01:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------

dear andreas,

no matter what evo u decided to buy, nice to know u and have u in our club....waiting for your new ride and we go cruising uphill...heard you are a pretty daring driver....by the way, nice to meet u at tt the other nite and couldnt have chance to talk to u coz u r so occupied with our taikors.........aka big bro ben, bro leslie and bro mizu......

Looking forward to discuss next time, we have to leave some topics open, right? It was a bit difficult as I had that boom-boom box screaming into my ears while I was trying to listen to you guys, not easy for an old man with not so good hearing (too much loud disco music when I was young, haha).

Hope we'll have some fun driving too when I do have my ride, so far I only saw you guys sitting, talking, drinking and eating, some showing up even without their ride. Would be completely impossible to have such a TT when it comes down to S2000. We would try to kill our tyres any time, haha.


Andreas

 

[jameswwt]

James,

thx for u post lah. Some comments from my side.

As I'm used to have VTEC in my last two cars (Honda CRX and S2000), the obvious is that there is only soo much you can do to cams when you change for example the size of the intake and outtake ports size in a good head job, you optimize the manifold and intake on the flow bench, the amount of fuel you're providing (by more fuel pressure or better bigger injectors), the ignition setting most of all. This is going to influence your optimal cams setting, as with a different amount of air/fuel mixture you put in and a different timing on ignition you need to alter your cams too when it comes to when they should open and close and how much overlap you need.

It all has to do with the perfect burning of the fuel in the small fraction of time that two cycles give you. Depending on the quality of the fuel it burns with a specific speed per millisecond, you don't want to see detonation happen or pre-ignition, you don't want to let unburned fuel exit through outtake into your cat killing it (gives nice flames though), right?

So to let's say 80% you're right, the cams will provide more hp along you tune, but for the last 20% of power your might need to look at your cams too, changing their profile along with your extreme tuning measures, otherwise you'll loose potential there. I have a good friend who calculated cam profiles when he was working for a car manufacture in Germany.

On the other hand I'll probably be happy with just adding 100 hp or so to my stock hp.

When it comes to wear and tear on your SST, this once again is depending on your tune. The thing that is going to kill you SST is the high torque, higher than the components can last, right? This is why some car manufactures are limiting their torque like Brabus or the Bugatti Veyron.

You can achieve this in your tune by limiting boost in lower gears (at least it's possible with a good standalone EMS) and only allowing full boost for example in 5th and 6th gear (when you go for max speed and power).


Just my two cents, but very interesting discussion I see,

Andreas

Hi Andreas,
great feedback and its really an eye opening for those who plan to upgrade their cams.

Btw,its Storm9 who post the comment...As my knowledge is only up to Evo 6....hehe

 

[Stormvolution 9]

Andreas,

Hahaha... Ya, it was me who replying u!!! No pro!!

Ok, i totally agreed on what u hv mentioned above!!! Oso myself is totally no idea of how's Honda VTEC is working cos i hv never own any Type R b4...

What i'm refering to is some other NA cars and of cos turbo cars as in the HKS VCam system... I think there is no V Cams system for Type R, right? Or mayb they dun need to...

Ok, I means when yr tuner set everything right from calculating everything from cams to injectors n stuffs... When u try the same setting using V Cams, it will give u much better output... Tht's what V Cams claimed for... HKS did some comparison setting on dynos to show to customers... Same car with same amount of after mkt parts, but with diff of 'normal' HKS cams n V Cams...

Ya, u r rite on setting diff boost on diff lower gears... HKS EVC 5 is able to do so...

Cheerz!!!

 

[A4XRBJ1]

Ok, I means when yr tuner set everything right from calculating everything from cams to injectors n stuffs... When u try the same setting using V Cams, it will give u much better output... Tht's what V Cams claimed for... HKS did some comparison setting on dynos to show to customers... Same car with same amount of after mkt parts, but with diff of 'normal' HKS cams n V Cams...

Ya, u r rite on setting diff boost on diff lower gears... HKS EVC 5 is able to do so...

Cheerz!!!

Ok Storm it was, was just reading the last sentence.

Still I don't get what HKS claims. Power is easy to understand, it comes from igniting the right mixture with the maximum you can put into your combustion chamber to burn, you have to make sure it burns completely and clean (meaning no pre-ignition) and at the right moment so that 100% of the energy that is developed in the burning process is then used to hit the piston on the head to put more power on the downward movement. You fire to early and you will hit the piston on the way up, ouch, there goes your engine. You hit it too late and your outlet valve will already be open with part of it going out into the exhaust and part of the flame front trying to reach the piston head on it's way down.

The cam is just there to control the opening and closing of your valves, making sure that they don't hit the piston when he's at his highest point and that you have a chance to fill the combustion chamber in the best way, whilst cleaning it from the exhaust side underpressure and sucking all the burned stuff out to make room for a fresh mixture of gasoline and oxygen.

It can be that the HKS cams are optimized in regards to the overlap between inlet and outlet valve, but that can be calculated and manufactored engine specific much better to your specific tune than any other aftermarket part.

Providing before and after dyno's is just marketing, nothing more.

Fine tuning your complete engine system to this is the maximum from the hp side, but also the maximum of $$ that you can throw in, as every component along the line needs to be in line with your hp target, none can be the bottleneck.

As the CAN bus is also a main difference between the two, what can you do more or better with the CAN bus than the normal OBD? Higher transfer rate of data, sharing more data between different system, but when it comes to tuning it, is it still an advantage or a disadvantage?

I know nobody went so far on the Evo X here in Malaysia, but what have you maybe heard or read about it from other countries like US or UK?


Andreas