td05 22G ???

[stand3t]

hi, would like to know if the td05 22G hybrid wif td06 fin from tong turbo will cause massive lag in a 4g93t?

am recently looking forward to rebuild my engine wif forged internal...

however, am now confusing in choosing either td05 20g or 22g...

heard that the same housing will be used... only td06 fin will be fitted inside...

hope can get some feedback from sifu2... and of course will be better if there is anyone that used the 22g before can share out the experience....

(dun wan end up lagging like hell after getting a 22g)

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:36 PM ----------

from wat i found out, d difference between td05 20g and 22g is where the compressor wheel will be changed to 22g... what i concern the most is where the turbine wheel which is from td06 will be fitted after porting the 7cm^2 turbine housing...

will it cause significant lag by using d same turbine housing but larger wheel??? or it doesnt affect much as like what i heard frm others where no big changes due to same size housing...

another concern is... by porting into bigger size... will the compressor & turbine housing bcome too thin???

any "choke" will be occur???

plz advise... do let me knw if i do mentioned something mistakenly... =)

 

[AlucarD]

Rumour has it, is that the 22G wheel if from some commercial diesel turbo vehicle. 18G, 20G, 22G or 25G refers to the compressor wheel and its dimensions. What is your 22G dimensions. The inducer and exducer size?

What I will be most concern on is not lag but compressor surge. However, your worry is valid. I had a 18G on a TD05H compressor housing before and on a 4G93T. Full boost is aournd 4000-4300 rpm and to some people it is laggy as the wheel is much bigger and heavier. The larger TD06 turbine wheel will also contribute to lag but flows better at the high end. But at high end you will choke your small compressor housing with the 22G wheel. On the stock TD05H compressor housing the turbo may just want to surge all the time. So its a nither here or there turbo.

Depending if you have cams or other modification it may lag. For a standard street driven 4G93T the max I would go is the 18G wheel. 20G if I have cams, standalone and high boost. 22G/24G/25G sh@t is for more serious stuff like a stroker, higher cams, high rpm and in my opinion a 3" turbine housing.

A good match will be a 20G wheel on a TD06 turbine as in the likes of Force Performance turbos for a mildly modded engine.

 

[stand3t]

Rumour has it, is that the 22G wheel if from some commercial diesel turbo vehicle. 18G, 20G, 22G or 25G refers to the compressor wheel and its dimensions. What is your 22G dimensions. The inducer and exducer size?

What I will be most concern on is not lag but compressor surge. However, your worry is valid. I had a 18G on a TD05H compressor housing before and on a 4G93T. Full boost is aournd 4000-4300 rpm and to some people it is laggy as the wheel is much bigger and heavier. The larger TD06 turbine wheel will also contribute to lag but flows better at the high end. But at high end you will choke your small compressor housing with the 22G wheel. On the stock TD05H compressor housing the turbo may just want to surge all the time. So its a nither here or there turbo.

Depending if you have cams or other modification it may lag. For a standard street driven 4G93T the max I would go is the 18G wheel. 20G if I have cams, standalone and high boost. 22G/24G/25G sh@t is for more serious stuff like a stroker, higher cams, high rpm and in my opinion a 3" turbine housing.

A good match will be a 20G wheel on a TD06 turbine as in the likes of Force Performance turbos for a mildly modded engine.

thx alot for d lengthy explanation...

btw, am still blur... with the term surge... even after google-ing it... LOL...:stupid:

what actually will we feel when surge do happen... what is d consequences.... even high boost application??? mind further elaborate on it? =)

i think 22g is out from my choice...

 

[V-8]

i will advice against using the 22g bro,especially since ur gonna be using it on a gsr.I would stick to what alucard said,either 18g or perhaps 20g at the most depending on ur state of mods.I'm using a 22g on an otherwise stock evo2 engine and its laggy as hell.I bought my car with this turbine and it was supposed to be used with a fully built engine which was sold off in which i guess this turbine would've been in its efficiency range.but as for a stock 4g63 or 4g93,i would strongly advice against it.even up to about 6k rpm and .9bar of boost i dont feel the 'seat-of-the-pants' push of a traditional turbo and dare i say with a hint of choke at the top end.probably another contributing factor would be my lousy leaky banana that came with the car,haha.gonna revert back to the stock manifold and see if there's any improvement.Also,i'm only running .9bar of boost with this turbine,will be putting in high duration and lift cams together with oversized valves and a good head port job and a boost increase of around 1.5bar and will see if this brings the turbine to life.If not,i'm moving on to my all time favourite TD06-20g or mayb 22g

As of now,it simply sucks driving my car....haha

 

[stand3t]

i will advice against using the 22g bro,especially since ur gonna be using it on a gsr.I would stick to what alucard said,either 18g or perhaps 20g at the most depending on ur state of mods.I'm using a 22g on an otherwise stock evo2 engine and its laggy as hell.I bought my car with this turbine and it was supposed to be used with a fully built engine which was sold off in which i guess this turbine would've been in its efficiency range.but as for a stock 4g63 or 4g93,i would strongly advice against it.even up to about 6k rpm and .9bar of boost i dont feel the 'seat-of-the-pants' push of a traditional turbo and dare i say with a hint of choke at the top end.probably another contributing factor would be my lousy leaky banana that came with the car,haha.gonna revert back to the stock manifold and see if there's any improvement.Also,i'm only running .9bar of boost with this turbine,will be putting in high duration and lift cams together with oversized valves and a good head port job and a boost increase of around 1.5bar and will see if this brings the turbine to life.If not,i'm moving on to my all time favourite TD06-20g or mayb 22g

As of now,it simply sucks driving my car....haha

at last... 22g owner here...
hmmm... cant imagine... how many rpm only reach full boost

thx alot for d review... =) really appreciate it...i may hav to op to other turbo... still undecided yet...:hmmmm:

 

[V-8]

at last... 22g owner here...
hmmm... cant imagine... how many rpm only reach full boost

thx alot for d review... =) really appreciate it...i may hav to op to other turbo... still undecided yet...:hmmmm:

Dont mention it bro....just glad i could help.if u want excellent response,why dun u opt for td05 ball bearing from tong turbo?its quite pricey but d response is phenomenal....of course tat applies if its response that ur after.but with the current technologies,even a plain bush bearing turbine can hold a candle to ball bearing turbines.after all comparing the latest innovative plain bearing turbo's vs ball bearing cores there's only about a 5 percent difference and maintenance is much costlier if something goes wrong and durability isnt as good as the plain bearing types.good luck dude!

 

[stand3t]

Dont mention it bro....just glad i could help.if u want excellent response,why dun u opt for td05 ball bearing from tong turbo?its quite pricey but d response is phenomenal....of course tat applies if its response that ur after.but with the current technologies,even a plain bush bearing turbine can hold a candle to ball bearing turbines.after all comparing the latest innovative plain bearing turbo's vs ball bearing cores there's only about a 5 percent difference and maintenance is much costlier if something goes wrong and durability isnt as good as the plain bearing types.good luck dude!

:hmmmm: td05 BB... cant imagine how d feel is...... hehehehe.... d respond of a td04... d power of a td05 16g...

again... thx to bros who share out d experience.... (coz experience is priceless...)
i'll check out with tong turbo... :proud:

i actually check with some 4g93t owner who are using 20g (jasma) recently... boost comin in at 4k rpm... so am just wondering... (if am using 22g) wat if my car boost started to comin at 5~6k... full boost at rev cut...:stupid:

 

[thilaksharma]

u may try contacting tong,
I had one of my turbo done by tong, it finally made 382whp at 1.6bar after I sold it to a GSR forum member

my specs
front 50trim Garrett Wheel, 54mm
turbine wheel td06h 58mm
turbine housing VR4RS
fully ported n etc

td06 there is td06sh , td06h , td06sl2 , td06 , aha which one do u mean :) , all are diffrent size
i wouldnt recommended 22g if u r going to stick with td05 turbine wheel and turbine housing

 

[stand3t]

u may try contacting tong,
I had one of my turbo done by tong, it finally made 382whp at 1.6bar after I sold it to a GSR forum member

my specs
front 50trim Garrett Wheel, 54mm
turbine wheel td06h 58mm
turbine housing VR4RS
fully ported n etc

td06 there is td06sh , td06h , td06sl2 , td06 , aha which one do u mean :) , all are diffrent size
i wouldnt recommended 22g if u r going to stick with td05 turbine wheel and turbine housing

fuh... very impressive... it was in a 93t or 63t???

am a completely noob of turbo... still learning bout turbo... hehehe...
regarding d td06 wheel... am not sure about it... i called and checked with tong turbo... n he told me that the td05 turbine will be retained and bore for the td06 wheel... (this is for the 22g td05)

btw, anyone mind to explain the term of choke / surge... (from wat i learn... big wheel in a housing which is too small)... what actually will it do to the engine... downside??? long term??? or not even suitable for street??? (juz wondering why tong turbo offers the turbo if there is the problem which will arise... juz my personal point of view... no harm):hmmmm:

 

[bebolagalas T]

u may try contacting tong,
I had one of my turbo done by tong, it finally made 382whp at 1.6bar after I sold it to a GSR forum member

my specs
front 50trim Garrett Wheel, 54mm
turbine wheel td06h 58mm
turbine housing VR4RS
fully ported n etc

td06 there is td06sh , td06h , td06sl2 , td06 , aha which one do u mean :) , all are diffrent size
i wouldnt recommended 22g if u r going to stick with td05 turbine wheel and turbine housing

u r using 22g then u not recommend other using the same setup like yours...hehe...

 

[AlucarD]

Nowadays there are some performance thrust bearing and billet wheel that will make a 20G seems like a small fin as compared to a few years ago. I have a 20G billet wheel for sale. It will fit the EVO 1-3 turbos and it super light. I would even dare say lighter than the stock 16G wheel. PM me if any of you are interested.

The big 22G wheel will out flow the small compressor housing and when too much air is flowing and you lift the throttle, the air will flow back to the compressor. This back pressure will cause your compressor fins to stall or even break your shafts. This surge of air is called compressor surge. A bigger housing will be better in preventing this or a ported housing with an anti surge cover.

Thong can do all of the above to prevent surge which is very important for a mismatch or frenken wheel combo like what you are going for. Porting the housings is completely safe if the builder knows what he/she is doing. Go to Firdaus/bebolagas he knows what he is doing and can build you a turbo based on your specification and targets.

Normally, these kind of turbo aka 20G, 22G, 25G. Will like higher boost to come into their operating efficiency. Something like 1.3bar and above will be good. No point running them in low boost.. So for a 4G93T you should have some intermediate mods like fuel, exhaust, bigger inter cooler pipings and intercooler and a good boost controller. A piggyback or Standalone ECU is in my opinion preferred as well.

End of the day what are your plans? Budget, Power goals, Response requirement, type of racing or driving that you do. That should dictate what type or turbo mods or turbo that you want.

 

[stand3t]

Nowadays there are some performance thrust bearing and billet wheel that will make a 20G seems like a small fin as compared to a few years ago. I have a 20G billet wheel for sale. It will fit the EVO 1-3 turbos and it super light. I would even dare say lighter than the stock 16G wheel. PM me if any of you are interested.

The big 22G wheel will out flow the small compressor housing and when too much air is flowing and you lift the throttle, the air will flow back to the compressor. This back pressure will cause your compressor fins to stall or even break your shafts. This surge of air is called compressor surge. A bigger housing will be better in preventing this or a ported housing with an anti surge cover.

Thong can do all of the above to prevent surge which is very important for a mismatch or frenken wheel combo like what you are going for. Porting the housings is completely safe if the builder knows what he/she is doing. Go to Firdaus/bebolagas he knows what he is doing and can build you a turbo based on your specification and targets.

Normally, these kind of turbo aka 20G, 22G, 25G. Will like higher boost to come into their operating efficiency. Something like 1.3bar and above will be good. No point running them in low boost.. So for a 4G93T you should have some intermediate mods like fuel, exhaust, bigger inter cooler pipings and intercooler and a good boost controller. A piggyback or Standalone ECU is in my opinion preferred as well.

End of the day what are your plans? Budget, Power goals, Response requirement, type of racing or driving that you do. That should dictate what type or turbo mods or turbo that you want.

ehehehe... thx again... d lengthy explanation do actually clear ma mind... =)
i'm targeting >300 and thinking tat if it is okay to juz get a td05 20g as there are many proven case where above 300 is not a problem for it ( with right tuning and so on)


wondering if i should juz go to bro firdaus to get a S256...:wavey:
bro firdaus, i hav learned that S256 dsm flange will not giv a direct fit in 4g93???
where does it actually 'sangkut' huh??? radiator??? fan???
if banana will be needed... does the regular banana that can be found outside will give a direct fit??? or only custom made will do the job???

 

[AlucarD]

>300whp or bhp?!? Hahaha ....... On a 4G93T >300whp will need CAMS, high boost, bigget injectors, 20G and standalone. I pushed my 18G Evo 3 turbo on a stock 4G93T up too 280+whp. 1.5bar stock internal.

 

[stand3t]

>300whp or bhp?!? Hahaha ....... On a 4G93T >300whp will need CAMS, high boost, bigget injectors, 20G and standalone. I pushed my 18G Evo 3 turbo on a stock 4G93T up too 280+whp. 1.5bar stock internal.

sobz... dun dare to aim for whp...

btw, nice power huh... 1.5 bar wif stock internal
hehehe... cant imagine how d feel is...

 

[V-8]

i would second the BW S256,if its the original (Beware,there are imitation BW's around) i'm sure its equipped with the latest lightweight and durable billet turbine and compressor wheel.The compressor housing inlet is also a very efficient design in preventing compressor surge.on the other hand,i think even a td05 18g or 20g will suffice for your pwr goals bro since ur bein realistic and nt shooting for the stars.

the td05 22g was conceptualised by sum1 i kno not too long ago who wishes to remain anonymous and the specs given to tong to make it happen and it did.this same guy i know is also responsible for conceptualising the bb td05 which was put on one of our frens satria gsr on an otherwise stock gsr with gr8 results.none of us at that moment thought tong would actually comercialise these specs but he did.

the td05 22g like mine is also on another of my frens car.its a fully built gsr,albeit in a wira aeroback of all things,and i felt the power at 1.5bar which brings it up to its efficiency range and my god.....the power and response was awesome to say the least.I was literally pinned to the seat.huhu....thinkin bout i'm itching to get my next round of mods goin and boosting it to 1.5bar to see hw it performs on my 4g63.i suspect its gonna be crazier than the gsr.

btw alucard,hw much u looking at for the billet 20g wheel?n whr izit or who manufactured it?

 

[TongTurbo Eng]

Yes you may come to visit us for any consultation

 

[AlucarD]

V-8, here's the link to my billet 20G

http://www.zerotohundred.com/newfor...illet-compressor-wheel-20g-for-td05-td06.html

I purchased this from the States for my upgrade but did not use it at the end of the day. It's beautiful and is very light. I think it will definitely spool much earlier. I'm willing to let it go for a reasonable price. PM me if you are interested.

Cheers