My Snail Rebuild Integra DB8

[ddv_nk12]

ok, now that the exterior is pretty much done. i think its time too start some serious and my favourite part. engine internals. i'll be doing the IM n TB sometime this week. My mechanic is not free, so delay in that. i cant afford to leave my car in the shop also.

anyway, i'm thinking of doing some mods to the internals. first thing i'm looking at is the piston. i was all the while thinking that forged pistons is the way i should go. till i saw this in another forum

FYI, cast pistons in the same size compression ratio of any aftermarket forged piston will make more power. This is due to the expansion rate of oem pistons as compared to forged pistons. Rebuilds are necessary sooner when using forged pistons as the rings and cylinder walls accumulate more abuse because of this.

so, now my head is pretty much messed up. i hv very little knowledge when it comes to all this. i read bout this, did my research, i understood but maybe 20% of everything. guess my head isnt for this kinda things. hehe.

what would u guys recommend. forged or cast? tell me the brand as well. i had wiseco in mind initially but that's for forged pistons. where to get cast pistons?

about the compression ratio now. firstly, i must say correct me if i'm wrong. as i know, for non-turbo cars the Cr should be higher. but the higher it is, the more un-street friendly it becomes. i hope my statements here are right but if its wrong, please tell me. i m looking for a fast car but more of a street car. so what CR, i should be looking at?

whats ur stand on brands? i saw one Performance Pistons only RM650 and Supertech bout Rm1600 and Wiseco and all bout 2k or slightly above. there's another brand Duratech. I know Wiseco, Mahle n CP r the branded, famous ones. what bout the others i mentioned above? is it really necessary to get expensive pistons. why? wont the average ones do?

i also heard that that tx3 84mm pistons can be used. is it advisable? its the cheapest among all for a brand new one and its high compression too.

hope to get some help here to get my project moving. need to tell my mech bout the pistons i want. so that he can order for me. i'm gonna buy the parts one by one and then rebuild the whole engine when i have everything in hand.

 

[ddv_nk12]

i found a hi comp tx3 piston. its cast iron piston, 84mm with CR 11.2. need some advice on whether should go for this or forged piston. the price for this tx3 piston is like 3 times cheaper than the forged pistons. but will it perform well with the b20 vtec? will there be any P2V clearance issue? what cams would it be able to handle?

 

[mADmAN]

theres basically 3 types of pistons generally used for engines..

1/ cast iron
cast iron are basically stock pistons...the good thing about them is that they dont expand much when heated up and they take very little time to heat up. this allows for tighter piston to wall clearance which basically eliminates piston to wall slap. they are also the weakest type of the 3.

2/ forged with low silicone content using 2618 aluminium
Example of the brand is Wiseco. this type is the strongest of all....the downside is that both types of forged pistons will expand MORE than cast iron pistons so will require greater piston to wall clearance. another downside is that they take longer to heatup and expand. so during cold starts, piston to wall slap is pretty common...at least til the pistons warm up. wall slaps can scratch ur sleeve.

3/ forged with high silicone content using 4032 aluminum
Supertec and CP uses these... a common trait of forged pistons is that they expand MORE than cast iron pistons so will require MORE piston to wall clearance. the bad thing is, they take longer to heat up and expand.. so during cold starts, piston to wall slap is common. again, wall slaps can scratch ur sleeve. this type of piston however, expands less than the one above. so u can get tighter piston to wall clearance and minimize wall slap. they are also not as strong as the one above but still significantly stronger than cast iron pistons.



myself, i went with supertec 11.5 pistons for my rebuild. my mechanic wanted me to use wiseco, i refused as i didnt wanna take the chance of slapping.. though i know hes built a number of daily driven engines with wiseco with no issues...no slapping etc. but still i kiasu...so i dun wan

ive also seen a picture on hondatech of a wiseco piston suffering severe slapping... that the W on the side of the piston actually wore off and were badly scratched.

up to u which one u wanna use. talk to ur mechanic if need be. im not sure if u get 84mm forged do u still need to bore a little for the wall clearance or not..

as for the TX3 pistons, it was pretty common to use it in B20 a long time ago.. nowadays, i rarely hear of anyone using them.

other options cast iron are RS Machine and YCP pistons. both only available on the internet and outside the country...mostly on ebay. both have the same exact design: B18C-R design but with different sizes. should give u around 10+ compression. the YCP is significantly cheaper than RS Machines (which has alot more good feedback, barely hear anything about the YCP either postive or negative)...but recently i found a set of used RS Machine pistons on mudah HERE

another option for cast iron would be the stock F20B pistons... these however are 85mm and will require a rebore.. also, the pistons need to be worked on by the machine shop in order to be fitted into b series to ensure clearance and fitment.

 

[ddv_nk12]

thanks a lot for the clarification. u certainly made my day.

1)just to confirm, u mentioned that cast pistons are the weakest. does this mean it has higher possibilities to break or smtg like that?

2) my mechanic also suggested me to use Wiseco 84mm. He's using 85.5mm. I dare not. Guess i'll not go with Wiseco after knowing that it causes wall slap.

3) so its ok to use the TX3 pistons, i guess. I prefer this mainly because of its price and its cast iron. my question on this is whether i can use aftermarket cams with it? and is there any machining required?

i also read quite a lot of reviews on RS Machine pistons. I was looking for it but not in this country. The one u saw in mudah is used. is it ok to use a used one? I mean i dont know how is it supposed to look like, but that particular one looks dirty and old. so, u know, i dont feel good about it. unless, there is smtg i can do bout it. Can i use it with my stock B20 conrod? Although the price is quite high for a used one, it comes with the conrod and crank. so i guess its ok la. any idea what crank and conrod is that? in the ad it says its a b18 crank and suitable for b16. so, i'm not sure if it can be used in B20.

I dont want to bore the block, so i think the 85mm f20b pistons are out of my list la.

for more secure feeling, should i resleeve the cylinders? or wont it be necessary?

 

[mADmAN]

1/ if ur comparing metal strength then yes theyre the weakest and has the highest chances of breaking... forged are stronger and more durable....most are lighter than cast as well

2/ not all wiseco causes slap... still depends on the hands thats building the engine. like i said..my mechanic did alot of wiseco-ed engines... when he suggested me to use it, he also suggested to use tighter clearance... i still refused.

3/ not sure about machining... but i would assume so... best to check with mech. as for cams, i assume there shouldnt be any problem if the p2v clearance is alright...

if the RS pistons are ok... then i see no issues with buying them. n yes, u can use with ur stock crank n conrod... they were basically meant as a direct plug n play for B20s. most likely stock b18 crank n conrod in the ad.. good for those who wanna stroke up their 1.6 b16b to 1.8. the 84mm pistons will bring the displacement to 2.0 though.

resleeving not necessary though recommended to use stronger sleeve... i myself using stock sleeves bored to 85mm. i also know of another guy with almost similar block setup like mine... but with toda c2 cams.. pushing 235whp with just a chipped ecu and vafc...and stock sleeves..

 

[ddv_nk12]

okay, so now i know this. just googled what causes pistons to break. it is said that lack of fuel and extra timing causes this. if i get this right, i should not face any problems i assume.

as u adviced, i'll speak to my mech n see if its ok to use the tx3 pistons. to me affordability is also an important factor. hehe.

 

[ddv_nk12]

just got back my car last night after some touch up work from the paint shop. the rear windscreen rubber has shrunk, so they silicone-d the part to make it nice and even. is it possible to get a new rubber?

 

[mADmAN]

should be possible.... u need to find the part number and check... trychecking with Honda Singapore... as far as i know their stocks are pretty decent

 

[ddv_nk12]

thanks madman. will check.

today, i got a suprise call from my mech. good news. he told me to come and get my TB and IM fixed. managed to find time to send my car there. just collected my car. i have to say, that i'm pretty satisfied with the outcome.

no more idling problem. no more high rpm's after engaging vtec. n i feel its more powerful in the lower rpm. its just butt dyno.

so, as i was happy testing and revving and speeding on my way back. all of a sudden my car was like a motorboat. i knew it was running on 3 pistons. i stopped and checked. one of the cables connected to the distributor came off. fixed it back and problem solved.

now, i think and i really hope that its because my mech must have accidentally loosen the cable and it came off while i was speeding. BUT just to be sure, could there be anything else i should be worried off? what causes the cable to just come out like that?

pics of the intake manifold n throttle body to come soon. busy with work.

cheers.

 

[ddv_nk12]

here go the pics.

the old stock throttle body which was giving me idling problems n unstable rpm after engaging vtec.

b16 intake manifold was working fine but needed a swap

IM n TB is out

looking messy

clearer view of the old IM n TB

whohuhu - my new used b18c IM

ported 70mm

larger room

IM is in

i dunno whats this but it needed to be changed as well, its the cable that goes to the accelerator

my new s90 70mm tb

i just like the shine

here's the IM n TB

another view

and the last pic for now

overall i'm pretty satisfied. just hope to hear bout the reason why the plug cable came off while some hard driving

 

[kazukimy]

shouldnt be a prob,u can try to go full throttle again,and if the cable come out again,den only see wats the prob,haha

 

[ddv_nk12]

nice... wont it cause more damage if there is a real problem? trying to minimise my cost to repair here. hehe.

 

[kazukimy]

if loose again,juz change the plug cable,dun think got any more prob,wakaka...so u tekan ady?

 

[ddv_nk12]

haha.. not yet la bro. no time to take my car for a ride. just warmed up the engine. maybe tom la.

so, nothing is wrong with the other parts rights? i scared la. hhaahaha. i take care of it like a girl.

 

[kazukimy]

sometimes if u too sayang her,she will giv more prob,happened to my car,need to erm...must drive her for wat she is being made for,haha..else sikit sikit will batuk here and there

 

[ddv_nk12]

sometimes if u too sayang her,she will giv more prob,happened to my car,need to erm...must drive her for wat she is being made for,haha..else sikit sikit will batuk here and there

yes boss.. true also. but mine is not a monster. anyway, i'll try later. see how n update tonight.

 

[ddv_nk12]

car is fine. i guess it must be the cable was loose. hopefully this is the case.

anyway, does anyone have any idea how much does it cost to do a compression test?

 

[ddv_nk12]

hey guys, need some info here. its about time to service my car. i'm planning to use amsoil motor oil and amsoil oil filter. but the person i'm buying it from in unsure of which type of oil filter i should use because mine is a b20 vtec with a b16 head. he has two types n he's definitely sure either one will fit. so, he asked me to find out whether the current model accord's or civic's oil filter will fit mine. once i have given him this answer, he'll know which oil filter to give me.

 

[kazukimy]

wah,currently u using which oilfilter?juz use bck the 1 tat u r using should be alright...

 

[ddv_nk12]

hehehe, just wanted to try out since the price isn't too big a difference. lol.. plus i heard that with amsoil motor oil n amsoil oil filter, OCI is like 20k km. wow... dunno if its true or not la. i just dunno why m i feeling like i'm being cheated. hehe